Here is a summary of week 15 at the AEG trial based on the ABC tweets.
Monday August 5, 2013. DAY 62
![LaPerruque]()
On Monday August 5, 2013 Michael LaPerruque, MJ’s chief of security and a former LAPD deputy sheriff continued his testimony (the first part was on Thursday August 1).
He is so great a guy in Michael Jackson’s life that needs a separate post, so now I will not say much – just a couple of words:
- LaPerruque was Michael’s head of security during one of the most difficult periods of his life – in 2001-2004. The year 2001 was a battle for the Invincible album and 2002-2004 were connected with Bashir and Arvizos’ allegations.
-
- With his 22,5 years of experience as a policeman LaPerruque says it pointblank that Michael was innocent and if he had ever had a single doubt he would have been the first to put handcuffs on his hands.
-
- He said that Michael took the false accusations very hard and he often saw him cry.
- Despite approximately 30 times he heard and saw Michael having slurred speech within the 3 years of work for him, he never saw any drugs, never saw any IV stands though he had unrestricted access to his room, had the key and could enter at any time.
- He also said that the slurred speech could be due to Michael taking sleeping pills for the night, and he made a supposition that on the 15 occasions Michael summoned him to his room at night it looked like he was lonely and simply wanted someone to talk to.
- LaPerruque’s way of handling Michael’s problems was very gentle and Michael appreciated it very much.
- He said Michael worked very, very hard to fight his dependency on prescription medication. They never discussed it, but despite that Michael saw it necessary to inform him of the progress he was making in beating the dependency – at some point without a single question asked he reported to LaPerruque that he was clear and determined to stay that way.
- Their communication was very interesting – they understood each other almost without words. LaPerruque said they went through different times together but he loved Michael very much. When Michael arrived from Ireland and called him to work for him again he dropped a prestigious job with the Los Angeles Times and went back. His second period of work for Michael was 2007 until beginning of 2008. During all this time he never saw Michael under the influence of any medication and never saw Murray.
Here is the very short of what he said on his second day of testimony on Monday, August 5:
Monday August 5, 2013 DAY 62
Hello from the courthouse in downtown LA. Day 62 of Jackson family versus AEG trial — Week 15 — is currently underway.
Michael LaPerruque, Michael Jackson’s former head of security, resumed testifying. Jackson’s atty, Deborah Chang, did the cross examination.
Katherine Jackson is present in court, wearing a long jacket in a green and pink water color print of tulips.
LaPerruque said 2001-2004 were very difficult years for Michael Jackson. They were also very busy years.
MJ was recording “You Rock My World” single and shooting a short film at the Universal Studios when LaPerruque began working for the artist.
Change showed clip of “You Rock My World” with Marlon Brando and Chris Tucker and MJ. The single became part of “Invincible” album.
LaPerruque was present when the song was recorded.
In 2002, LaPerruque said Blanket was born. MJ was very excited about being dad again.
LaPerruque went to New York with MJ to be at the Apolo Theater with President Bill Clinton to encourage people to register to vote.
Chang showed clip of President Clinton introducing MJ to the crowd.
She also showed the 2003 American Bandstand 50th anniversary in Pasadena and MJ’s cameo in “Man In Black 2″ in 2002.
Chang: Did MJ have a good sense of humor, including about himself?
LaPerruque: Yes
Chang asked about MJ passing out in Florida and his children called 911. LaPerruque said he doesn’t know what caused him to go unconscious.
LaPerruque said paramedics are more prepared than him, as former sheriff’s deputy, to assess a patient.
LaPerruque never saw the paramedics report. They did not take the MJ to the hospital.
Chang asked if there was a mention of low blood sugar in the report. Defendant’s attorney objected based on hearsay and judge sustained it.
LaPerruque said it was hot and humid that day in Orlando and he does not know when was the last time MJ ate or drank anything.
The head security never saw drugs in MJ’s room.
I never saw the doctors actually treating Mr. Jackson, LaPerruque said. He said he only took MJ to doctor’s office and would wait outside.
Chang: Did you ever raise concerns to Dr. Farshchian you thought he overprescribed medication?
LaPerruque: Yes
There seemed to have been a social relationship between Dr. Farshchian and Michael Jackson, LaPerruque said.
Chang: From 2001-2004 went through a lot of pain, stress and anxiety?
Objection, vague. Sustained.
LaPerruque was never aware of the kind of treatment necessary to treat MJ’s vitiligo and burned scalp.
In 2007 – 2008 LaPerruque worked back with MJ. He had never heard about Dr. Murray.
Chang: Would it be fair to say that throughout the years you worked for MJ you never saw him overdose?
LaPerruque: Yes
LaPerruque raised his concerns with Dr. Farshchian, Dr. Slavitch in San Francisco and Grace Rwamba.
At one point, LaPerruque and Rwamba had a system to try to stop doctors to overprescribe drugs to MJ.
Chang: You tried to protect Mr. Jackson, right?
LaPerruque: Yes
Chang: Have you ever seen him with terrible case of chills?
LaPerruque: No
Chang: Have you ever seen an alarming weight loss?
LaPerruque: No
Change: Have you ever heard people complain they could see his heart beating through his chest?
LaPerruque: No
Chang: Have you ever seen MJ lost, paranoid?
LaPerruque: No
Chang: Did you ever hear MJ saying that God was talking to him?
LaPerruque: No
Chang asked if LaPerruque saw those symptoms, what would he have done.
I’d have been very concerned and if I thought it was life-threatening I’d have taken him to the hospital, LaPerruque said.
Randy Jackson was by himself when he arrived at Neverland by helicopter. He did have a pilot, though, LaPerruque clarified.
Chang: Did you ever hear Randy Jackson speak about an intervention?
LaPerruque: No.
Chang: Did you ever hear the word intervention that day?
LaPerruque: No.
Chang: Did you ever know there was an intervention?
LaPerruque: No.
After 2004, LaPerruque didn’t see MJ on a day-to-day basis except for 2005 during the criminal trial. He never saw MJ in 2006 and early 2007
MJ was acquitted of all child molestation charges and left the country after the verdict.
Rwamba contacted LaPerruque to go back to work for MJ. He said he wouldn’t have jeopardize his job at the time if he thought MJ was on drugs
LaPerruque never observed any problems in 2007 with MJ being under the influence of prescription drugs.
Chang: Do you have any idea who was in charge of MJ’s finances in 2007?
LaPerruque: Raymon Bain
The head security said he learned Bain became MJ’s manager in 2006. She was the CEO/president of MJJ Productions. She signed his contract.
Chang asked if LaPerruque noticed there was a transition with Bain’s position at the time he wasn’t paid. He said he didn’t know.
LaPerruque said he wasn’t aware of MJ’s worth and/or debt at that point. He received call from Bain said MJ would not be needing security.
LaPerruque said Janet Jackson hired him and other personnel to work at the May 14, 2009 event, which was her parents’ anniversary.
The event took place at Chakra Indian restaurant in Beverly Hills. That was the last time LaPerruque saw MJ, a month prior to his death.
Chang showed picture of MJ on June 2009.
Chang: He did not look anything like this, correct?
LaPerruque: Correct.
Chang: If he had you’d have been alarmed?
LaPerruque: Yes
Chang: Was he a kind and gentle person?
LaPerruque: Yes
The fact that MJ was one of the most famous artists in the world didn’t change his way of being humble, LaPerruque said.
Chang asked if LaPerruque knew MJ gave thousands of dollars to United Way. He said yes.
LaPerruque told the jury there was a time where MJ asked him to go to Toys R Us to buy as many presents he could.
He said MJ wanted to give the toys to the children at the Women Shelter in Hollywood, Florida.
He said MJ spent thousands of dollars there, and MJ decided to decline his appearance because he didn’t want it to become a media circus.
LaPerruque said MJ learned with his mother to give money to the poor.
We went and donated the toys, LaPerruque said.
C: Did she love him?
LaPerruque: Yes
Chang: Based on your observations and the things he told you, did he love his mother?
LP: Yes
LaPerruque described MJ’s relationship with his children as excellent. “It was a very loving relationship,” he said.
LaPerruque: They wanted to be with their father, I think MJ was the happiest when we was with his children.
He said MJ wanted them to really want something and appreciate what they had.
MJ would restrict his children to one present and one present only when they went to a toy store, LaPerruque testified.
MJ’s intention was for the kids to really want something and appreciate what they had, LaPerruque explained.
LaPerruque: Not only that, he pushed them toward educational type of toys that they could’ve learned from.
He wanted to be the best father ever, LaPerruque testified.
One of the things LaPerruque remembers the most about Michael Jackson is the fact that MJ was always kind and gentle with his children.
The 2001-2004 period was the time MJ was trying to quit addiction to drug use, wanted his family away from Neverland, LaPerruque said.
For the parents’ 60th anniversary party, the restaurant was closed for Janet Jackson and the party members.
LaPerruque: In my course of employment with Mr. Jackson we’d have a room for him for down time also called green room.
LaPerruque made sure the room was set for MJ upon arrival. They first saw each other in the main room but talked in the private room.
Chang: A family member come to the ranch on one occasion, right?
LaPerruque: Yes.
Chang: Was MJ always able to perform and complete his functions?
LaPerruque: Yes
Chang: If there was ever a time he could not get up on stage to perform, that would’ve been a concern for you?
LaPerruque: Yes.
LaPerruque is then excused. Eric Briggs returned to the stand to conclude his testimony from last week.
So next comes Eric Briggs again as if we didn’t have enough of him during those many days of his testimony for AEG. I am absolutely unwilling to repeat any more of Briggs’ lies here, so let me explain instead my understanding of where we are with AEG at the moment. All of it will be about MJ’s health and his earning potential which is Briggs is supposed to estimate at the trial.
AEG’S OFFICIAL VERSION is that all the time they observed Michael he was healthy, vigorous and alert, and this why they planned for him 186 shows.
This was Gongaware’s own number used by the Plaintiffs’ expert Erk to estimate Michael’s earning potential (186 shows x $108 ticket price x number of seats = $1,1 bln plus the cost of merchandise and endorsement deals. Total: $1,5 bln).
To explain why AEG were planning this outrageous number of shows AEG had to say that Michael was healthy.
![February 2009]()
February 2009
But now that they are in the danger of losing a billion they are keen to prove the opposite – that MJ could not do all those shows, was ill, his life expectancy was short and 186 shows were ruled out and and even 50 shows were under a big question mark.
The reason why they planned 186 shows for so ill a man is that he had a “dark secret”, was an “addict” and the poor AEG did not know and this situation took them completely unawares.
This explains why the AEG bosses officially “never heard” of Michael’s dependency, never knew, never witnessed, never saw and even Gongaware learned of the drugs only from a TV announcement though he went with Michael on the Dangerous tour when the situation was at its worst.
Randy Phillips “didn’t know” either, but staged an intervention for Michael in the middle of June 2009, only “it wasn’t drugs” but the need for some protein cocktails or whatever. How could we even imagine that AEG knew that Michael could be unwell? Didn’t we know that he was perfectly healthy until the day he died?
However my understanding is that in contrast to the sleek and bright AEG’s official version, already in autumn 2008 they knew that Michael was very weak. It was his temporary condition due to a heavy blow delivered to him by Barrack and Tohme and threats that they would be “presiding on a funeral” if he didn’t work and didn’t enter into an agreement with AEG.
AEG and the two other parties in this trio took full advantage of Michael’s then state. They planned 186 shows which were to bring them billions, especially if tickets were sold on the secondary market. 50 shows were only the beginning and they wanted even more and if it were not for Michael who put a stop to their mad sale of tickets in March 2009 by constantly calling Randy and saying “No more shows please, no more shows”, they would have sold 100 or even 200 shows in London alone, leaving Michael to deal with all the consequences of what they did.
![March 14, 2009 What can be his weight here?]()
March 14, 2009
What can be his weight here?
But even when setting those 50 shows they knew that Michael was frail. The picture dated March 14, 2009 does not leave doubt that Michael looked extremely thin and insecure then, and it was impossible for AEG and Tohme not to see it. No, they did see it, but completely neglected it, because the idea was to grab as much as possible leaving Michael to take care of the rest.
However Michael’s condition changed already in April 2009 when due to his incredible willpower, determination to do the concerts, phenomenal perseverance and the great boost of energy he got from his fans he rose from ashes again and overcame the situation.
For him those concerts were for real and he was determined to make them a success. For AEG they were most probably not – they never thought he would make them, hence all those numerous reservations they made in their contract for getting his assets in case of cancellations.
So AEG knew that Michael was in a rather frail state in autumn 2008/winter-spring 2009 but presented him as healthy and vigorous. He wasn’t vigorous but he wasn’t taking any drugs – he was simply depressed and deeply overwhelmed by his financial problems.
But AEG always attributed his frailty only to abusing prescription drugs though now they pretend they didn’t know.
It was impossible not to know of his past dependency. Everyone knew of it as Michael openly declared it even in a song, not to mention his earlier TV announcement in 1993. AEG, Tohme and everyone were sure that the dependency continued, only no one discussed it in the open – officially Michael was in the best of health and AEG still needed a big insurance, and for the insurance Michael was to be clean, fine and strong, both at that moment and for at least 5 years prior to it too.
However now AEG’s own mantra about Michael being perfectly healthy at all times is turning against AEG as they face the danger of paying a billion dollars. Hence their new strategy saying that only recently, from depositions of various doctors they were amazed to learn about his “drug addiction issues”, how “short his life expectancy was” and that “he wouldn’t live a week”. Poor AEG never knew it and this took them completely by surprise!
This is why Briggs is doing his best to say that Michael had only a week to live and would have died without making a dime.
But the reality is totally different. Michael was exceptionally strong and was even unusually healthy for his age of 50 as the autopsy said. And he wasn’t a drug addict – he simply had to go through unimaginable lows in his life and several times found himself on the brink of a complete catastrophe that would have broken any of us.
Any of us but him. He always managed to bounce back to normal due to his incredible willpower, determination to live a healthy way of life, a huge sense of responsibility and love for his children and a great faith in God which helped him rise from ashes even after a nearly fatal blow.
And his life expectancy was long as he had no life-threatening conditions except lack of biological sleep as both the autopsy and medical findings at this trial prove it.
And if it were not for AEG and their openly contemptuos and expoitative attitude towards him he would have done not only 50 but 200 or more concerts if he wanted to. Touring that much he did not want of course, but this is a different story.
What I mean is that if it were not for AEG Michael would have lived to be a hundred. And he was strong and healthy and was no longer dependent on drugs – though AEG thought he was, but never said it and now pretend that their eyes opened to it only five minutes ago.
But if they discovered it only recently let them please explain why they denied help to a totally drug-free person when they clearly saw that he was dying. What if all those symptoms had been a sign of diabetes, for example?
I suggest that we keep in mind all the intricacies of AEG’s chameleonic logic when reading about one more day of Briggs’ testimony on Monday August 5:
Sabrina Strong did the questioning. She asked if Briggs recorded the time worked in this case as it’s customary in the industry.
During the course of my 15 year career, this is the normal course we bill clients, Briggs responded.
Strong asked if the amount he billed had anything to do with his opinions. Briggs said no.
Briggs: I set out to evaluate the reasonable projections based on Mr. Erk’s numbers.
He said he attended Erk’s testimony, gave depositions, did extensive research to come to his conclusions and opinion.
Briggs said the first time he saw Erk’s projections was during Erk’s deposition in March. He was deposed a couple of days later.
Briggs said after his own deposition, he did additional research. He looked into the history of MJ’s tour in the US and overseas.
He also analyzed the history of any artists selling out all the shows.
Briggs said the projection was done based on a solo artist, thus he didn’t analyze MJ as part of Jacksons 5 group.
Briggs said he analyzed Erk’s projection and upon concluding it was speculative, it wasn’t for him to speculate forecast in lots of pages.
Strong asked about Brian Panish inquiring Briggs’ background in audits. “This case does not involve audit dispute,” Briggs responded.
Briggs said Erk submitted specific projection of an entertainment project that MJ would’ve potentially be part of.
What the economics of the project is is what I do everyday, evaluating risks and projecting income, Briggs explained.
Strong showed slide created by Panish. The blue bars is what has been publicly known to have occurred, Briggs said
Strong asked if the green bars are “imaginary tours” result of math problem. “Those are tours that never took place,” Briggs said.
Briggs explained Panish’s math: MJ’s average public multiplied by number of shows by other artists multiplied by Erk’s $108 tix price.
Briggs said Panish used 3 different statistics and multiply them all. “It’s just a math problem,” he said.
Strong: Looking at this, did Mr. Panish compare apples to apples?
Briggs: I don’t think so.
Briggs said 55k people multiplied by 167 shows in AC/DC tour results in over 9 million tickets, doubled what was ever associated with MJ.
Briggs said HIStory tour sold 4.5 million tickets for 82 shows, Bad also sold roughly 4.5 million tickets for 123 shows.
Briggs: Historically, his shows sold 4.5 million tickets, appreciating he sold more albums at that point and was more active.
Strong: Was that the peak of his career?
Briggs: I think so.
Briggs said Erk’s projection is “significantly in excess of MJ’s prior tours & significantly in excess of imaginary tours Panish calculated”
Strong: Could MJ have audience of 13 million on his show?
Briggs: I don’t know how you can be reasonably certain that would’ve happened.
Briggs said Gongaware email communication indicate there was a proposal to go on a worldwide tour on Sept. 26, 2008.
Briggs said there were number of words in the email that indicates to him it was a preliminary plan.
In Sept. 2008, the agreement between MJ and AEG had not been signed yet.
This is clearly in the early stages of a proposal, Briggs said.
Regarding email saying “his gross would approached half a billion dollar,” Briggs said he interprets it to be total ticket sales/merchandise
Erk’s projection was $1.56 billion, he compared.
Email says “Net to Mikey $132 million,” which Briggs explained indicates the amount AEG was expecting to have MJ net.
Briggs said Erk projected roughly $900 million net for MJ.
Briggs: There was no formal plan (for world tour), this is early proposal and Mr. Erk’s projection was entirely speculative.
Regarding shows in Japan and India, Gongaware was planning 4 shows in India. Briggs said Erk projected 60 shows in India.
Gongaware planned 8 shows in Japan plus 1 private for a total of 9 shows, versus Mr. Erk’s projection of 50 shows in Japan, Briggs said.
Briggs said he saw some headlines regarding MJ donating proceeds from a tour to charity. He said he doesn’t know if that ever happened.
Briggs said he relied on Gongaware’s testimony that MJ’s tours lost money or broke even, since the actual amount is normally confidential.
Strong: If he didn’t make money from those tours, would he donate money?
Briggs: If he didn’t make any money there would be no profit for him to donate.
Briggs reviewed Dr. Shimelman’s deposition in this case. The doctor was asked to give his best estimate of MJ’s life expectancy in June 2009
Briggs: He clearly stated that Michael Jackson’s life expectancy was 1 week as of June 2009.
Strong: What other issues did Dr. Shimelman rely upon other than MJ’s use of Propofol?
Briggs: He spoke specifically to the synergy of the drugs MJ was taking and the impact of them on the artist.
Briggs said Dr. Earley and Dr. Levounis also relied upon knowledge of history of his drugs use/manner which he took them for their opinion.
Strong: Did they rely solely on Propofol use?
Briggs: There were testimony of the synergy of the drugs, the interaction of the drugs MJ used
I don’t see how an interest for a world tour makes it reasonably certain it will happen, Briggs said.
He said there was no agreement beyond 50 shows at the time of MJ’s death. [Note: there was no agreement for 50 shows either].
Also, there’s a need to consider MJ’s history of drugs use and canceling shows, and the broad risk in the business.
Briggs said there was significant demand that exceeded expectations for the London show.
It means in London there were many people interested in seeing MJ do what he did best: perform, he explained.
But Briggs testified there was a difference between demand for seeing MJ and a company sponsoring the artist.
He said AEG was not able to secure any endorsement even after the high demand for tickets.
Briggs: It indicates there was a demand, it does not alleviate the health risk, it does not alleviate the cancellation risk.
Tom Barrack testified he did not know about Mr. Jackson’s drug use, Briggs said.
Briggs said he was asked to analyze what we have today and the key factors we know now that we didn’t know back then.
Erk specifically stated he did not take Michael Jackson’s drug use into consideration to form his opinion, Briggs testified.
There’s no reasonable basis for those projections based on the facts we know, Briggs concluded.
Outside the presence of the jury, Putnam told Judge Yvette Palazuelos that Panish threatened Briggs during the break.
Putnam said Panish told Briggs “you’re lucky we’re in court.” “I can’t have my witness threatened, you honor,” Putnam said.
Panish said the events were not quite like that. He told the judge Briggs ran him over, said “this witness ran me over”.
Judge laughed and said “I’d be surprised if anyone can run you over, Mr. Panish.” Panish said he didn’t touch or hit him.
Judge: Mr. Panish, don’t talk to any witness unless you’re talking about this case.
Panish: I didn’t threat him, he’s not afraid, he’d know if I threatened him.
In re-cross, Panish asked if Briggs was put aside to accommodate another witness who had scheduling problems. He said yes.
Panish: Is it fair to say your bills is $700 thousand now?
Briggs: That’s fair to say
Panish: And for 700k your opinion is that MJ would not have earned one dime from working to give to his children?
Briggs: Yes
Panish: In your opinion, it’s speculative MJ’d earn any money working, correct?
Briggs: Any projection of earning is speculative
Panish: You don’t determine what’s relevant in this courtroom, right? “Concerning my opinion, I determine what is relevant,” Briggs said.
Panish asked about Briggs’ interaction with MJ Estate’s lawyer.
I told you there was not a written waiver with the Estate, Briggs explained.
The Estate has different lawyers, they are not represented by Panish’s firm, Briggs said.
He said his understanding is that his partner called the Estate lawyer, Jeryll Cohen, notifying he would testify in this case.
Panish: So that statement under oath was untruthful, sir?
Briggs: That’s not correct, that was my best understanding at the time.
Panish said Briggs testified he asked the Estate for permission to be hired by AEG and testify in this case.
I now understand the substance of the call was not an authorization but a call of notification, Briggs explained.
There was a call to notify the Estate not to receive authorization from the Estate, Briggs said.
Panish: Is your testimony you called Ms. Cohen prior to signing the engagement letter with AEG’s attorneys?
Briggs: That’s not correct.
I never called Ms. Cohen to get authorization to testify, Briggs said. “No one called for authorization, they called for notification.”
Briggs said his partner, Roy Salter, called Hoffman’s company to notify Briggs was going to testify in this case.
Panish: And you are as sure of that as everything you testify to in this case, correct?
Briggs: Yes
Briggs said the general counsel at FTI took care of the issue.
Panish: Are you concerned about giving false testimony under oath?
Briggs: Of course I’m concerned of giving false testimony under oath!
There was no authorization sought, there was a notification to the Estate, Briggs said.
Briggs said he doesn’t have any record of speaking with Salter about it.
He said his best recollection is that it happened a few days prior to the firm’s engagement with AEG’s counsels.
Panish showed Briggs’ opinion. “This is the basis of my opinion that it’s speculative that the UK shows would be completed,” Briggs said.
One basis is the health of MJ, Briggs said. “As part of that basis, life expectancy is key.”
Panish: Did you write anything up about the Coroner’s testimony?
Briggs: I did not.
Panish asked if Coroner’s testified about life expectancy. “I understand the Coroner was not deposed,” Briggs said.
Therefore, he said he could not note anything about it in his notes. “I did not make reference of autopsy report,” Briggs explained.
Panish asked how many projects MJ did after the “Dangerous” tour. Briggs said it depended on how the work was classified.
Panish named several projects MJ worked, such as Luciano Pavarotti Benefit for the Children, “United We Stand” 911 benefit.
He also performed in NY with Bill Clinton, participated in movies “Man in Black 2″ and “Miss Castaway,” Thriller 25 album re-released.
Briggs knew about some of the projects, not all. He said “Thriller 25″ was extremely successful.
Panish: Do you know he recorded 100 new songs between 2001 and 2008 for new release?
Briggs: I did not know that.
Just to be clear, I’m giving an opinion to future earning, not about his albums, Briggs said.
Briggs explained if they had a plan, that would be in support of the O2 tour, as well as detailed budget and financing.
Financing appeared to be in place for O2 concerts, yes, Briggs said. There was also a director and approximately $34 million investment.
O2 arena’s capacity for MJ show is 15,000 average. “The contract contemplated a possibility for a world tour,” Briggs opined.
Territory is a define term in the contract, Briggs said. “Territory is defined as the world.”
Panish: Is this evidence a world tour was contemplated by MJ and AEG Live?
Briggs: Yes, this is evidence a world tour was contemplated.
Panish showed email Kathy Jorrie wrote: Nonetheless, I recommend that a background check be performed through a private investigator and/or at a minimum, that someone at AEG Live meet with Michael Jackson to make sure he understands that we are entering into a tour agreement with him that will require him to perform a worldwide tour…
Panish: You told us MJ’s drug use makes it speculative that he could do a worldwide tour and earn a dime?
Briggs: His drug use was a factor and basis for my opinion.
Briggs said endorsement companies have a long memory about the people they want to associate themselves with.
Panish asked if endorsement companies had a long-lasting memory about Tiger Wood. Briggs said athletes and very different from artists.
Panish: Tell us every endorsement deal you remember you reviewed as part of your experience.
Briggs said he doesn’t remember reviewing specific contracts for endorsement, need moment to think.
The expert did say he reviewed 50 Cent and Vitamin Water endorsement deal.
Briggs said he’s reluctant to disclose values, but knows 50 Cent received equity in the company.
Panish: It was more than $100 million, wasn’t sir?
Briggs: Not at the time, he entered into a deal thought to be much less than that.
Briggs said the deal was around $10 million, but he doesn’t recall any cash transaction. Today the deal is said to be valued $100 million.
Briggs wrote in his note:
Paul McCartney — $5 million Lexus
Rolling Stones — $10 million Citibank
Others in the $1-2 million range
Panish asked Briggs where that information came from. Briggs said he doesn’t recall, can’t give specifics.
Regarding the 4 year plan that included Australia tour, Briggs said: “I do not see how demand addresses a one week life expectancy.”
Panish addressed the judge: Your honor, I ask that Mr. Putnam stop making comments.
Judge: I already said I’m not going to babysit the two of you. Jury didn’t laugh this time around.
Panish discussed with Briggs, extensively, the chart and how Erk arrived at those numbers.
Strong, in re-re-re-direct: Did you ever dispute a world tour was contemplated?
Briggs: I did not.
He said he took that in consideration, but it didn’t alleviate some of the concerns he had.
Briggs said the general counsel of his firm cleared that there was no conflict of interest for him to testify in this case.
The Estate has not objected to my involvement in this case, Briggs said.
Panish, in re-re-re-cross: You’re sure as anything else you testified that your company contacted the Estate before signing the agreement?
Briggs: That’s correct.
Briggs is excused and judge gave a break in the afternoon session.
Isn’t it interesting to see how the story of the Estate “giving permission to testify for AEG” turned into the story of Briggs just “notifying” them about it?
![May 8, 2009 Timm Woolley's email to Murray 1]()
The same day the jury saw the video deposition of Tim Woolley. In all his emails to Murray he assured him that the work on the contract started on May 8th 2009 though Kathy Jorrie (who will testify the next day) will say that she started only on June 15th. Why did AEG drag their feet for a month and a half I wonder?
AEG’s attorneys played video deposition of Timm Wooley, a financial advisor who worked on “This Is It.” He’s been an advisor for 20 years.
Kevin Boyle, Jacksons’ attorney, did the questioning. Boyle asked if he thought it was weird MJ wanted a doctor on tour.
It was his choice, whether it was usual or not usual was not my place to decide, Wooley responded.
I think I wanted to get Mr. Murray off my back, Wooley said regarding emails he wrote to Murray. He said the intention was to put him off.
Wooley said Prince had done some shows in O2, he acted as financial consultant. Gongaware contacted Wooley to work in the “This It It” tour.
Wooley got an email in early 2009. He said Gongaware wanted him as his deputy to work on projections, payables, payroll, petty cash. Deputed for him in matters financial, when delegated to me, Wooley explained.
Wooley said he did not do the negotiations with Dr. Murray. He said negotiations is a broad term, may have done some work.
He said he gathered information on behalf of MJ, his doctor that the artist wanted to contract, Wooley explained.
Wooley said Gongaware told him MJ wanted to hire Conrad Murray, whom he said he later found out was MJ’s primary physician.
Boyle: Did you ask why MJ wanted a personal physician on tour?
Wooley: Not mine to ask.
Wooley remembers calling Murray once in early May to check if he needed anything that he would get the info to the appropriate people.
One email says: “Need for one venue-based, one home-based extracorporeal CPR units.”
Wooley said he suggested Dr. Murray to get CPR units. He said he was working for the tour, called the doctor on behalf of Michael Jackson.
Boyle: Did you take any orders from MJ?
Wooley: No
I enumerated that item as an item he might wanted to have, Wooley said about the CPR, or defibrillation, units.
He said in his community there was installation of CPR units in some houses and he thought of asking.
Boyle asked if Wooley lived in a retirement home. He said he’s not retired.
Boyle: Did you have any reason to believe MJ could have suffer a heart attack?
Wooley: None
I was gathering information to compose projections and budget, Wooley testified.
Boyle: Did you discuss Dr. Murray giving injection of Propofol to MJ?
Wooley: No
Wooley never discussed the need for IV lines and needles. He said the doctor told him he may needed an assistant.
Wooley said they did not discuss need for nurse or doctor. “We didn’t talk about his services,” Wooley said.
Boyle showed an email Wooley sent to Dr. Murray on May 14, 2009. It says he was following up with Dr. Murray.
Email from Murray on May 15, 2009: As for good faith with my client… I’m sure you’re aware my services are already fully engaged with MJ.
Wooley doesn’t remember the email and doesn’t know what “my services are already fully engaged” meant.
I was attempting to be helpful, Wooley explained. He said he was not aware that Dr. Murray was treating MJ on behalf of AEG.
Email from Dr. Murray ![:D]()
ear Timm, I gather from your last email my contract is taking a little more time to get than usual…
Email said his services are being done in good faith and asked, in reciprocity of good faith, to have payment for May deposited.
I didn’t have any agreement with Dr. Murray, Wooley said.
Boyle: Did AEG have an agreement?
Wooley: Never. There was never a completed agreement between Dr. Murray and AEG.
Wooley said he had no idea if AEG would pay Dr. Murray for May. He said he never read the contract.
Wooley testified he would’ve told Dr. Murray he would not get paid until the contract is completed.
Wooley said he does not recall specifically receiving an email from Dr. Murray with his bank account info and request for $150k payment.
Wooley said he does not remember if he asked Dr. Murray his bank account number.
The advisor said he was gathering the information with Dr. Murray to be put in a contract.
Email on May 28 from Wooley to Murray said doctor’s contract was delayed because it was rare event physician engaged to go on tour.
Yes, as far as I know, I was telling the truth, Wooley said. “I was putting him off.”
Boyle wanted to know if Wooley asked why they were taking the doctor along.
Did I not say it was Mr. Jackson’s request and it was not my place to question that? Wooley responded.
Wooley said Dr. Murray came from Vegas and MJ was living in Vegas for a period of time.
Wooley wrote email that AEG policy dictates you can only pay someone with fully executed contract. He said he knows it based on his experience
Wooley testified he forwarded to Dr. Murray the contract Kathy Jorrie sent him. He said he did not read it.
Boyle showed Wooley a chain of emails between him and Kathy Jorrie. He said he did not recall the chain specifically.
In an email, Wooley apologized for the delay in getting the contract to Murray, said once contract is executed AEG could pay May/June salary
There wouldn’t be any payment until a full agreement, Wooley said.
Wooley said he remembers Dr. Murray had MJ’s medical record from 2006 to 2009. It was needed for purposes of securing insurance.
Wooley testified Dr. Murray seemed to be the person to have the records, which was needed for underwriter of insurance.
Wooley said they would not have needed CPR units until they went to the UK. He did not quote any prices for the machine.
![extracorporeal CPR unit in use]()
extracorporeal CPR unit in use
Wooley expressed he never discussed with Dr. Murray what kind of treatment he would be giving MJ.
Wooley testified he never saw any of the drafts of the contract between Dr. Murray and AEG, only forwarded them.
Brigitte Segal was MJ’s personal tour manager, Wooley said.
Wooley was not asked to run a background check on Dr. Murray and doesn’t know if it was ever requested by anyone.
Wooley said Dr. Murray asked for a “locum,” a British medical term for a person who stands by in place of a physician.
That ended Wooley’s deposition. Judge adjourned session until tomorrow morning. Attorneys are ordered at 9:30 am PT, jury at 9:45 am PT.
Attorneys and judge will discuss the video deposition of Joseph Marcus, the Neverland Ranch manager. Kathy Jorrie will testify next.
We hope to see you all tomorrow for full coverage of the trial. For the latest, watch @ABC7 and http://www.abc7.com . Good night everybody
Before getting down to Tuesday please note that Murray asked for two “extracorporeal” CPR units which are absolutely not the portable CPR unit they finally agreed to. An extracorporeal CPR unit is a highly sophisticated piece of equipment and a very costly one at that.
So I doubt it very much that in the almost two months of negotiating Murray’s contract they never discussed why Murray asked for that equipment and therefore what kind of treatment he would be giving MJ. In fact anyone looking at the price and sophistication of that piece will exclaim in surprise – what do you need an extracorporeal CPR for?
Tuesday August 6, DAY 63
![responsibilites of Murray]()
To Kathy Jorrie, the lawyer who drafted the contract between AEG and Conrad Murray I have several questions:
1) Why did it take her approximately 40 days to make the first draft of the contract though Timm Wooley promised to start working on the contract already on May 8th, 2009?
2) Why did she first specify June 24 as the effective date of the contract and only when Murray noticed it changed it to May 1st? Was she trying to deceive Murray? After all payment was to start only from the date of executing the contract (when all parties were to sign it). So why was she so keen on saving up Michael’s money? Or was it AEG’s money that she was economizing?
3) She says she forgot to replace “Producer” with Aritist” in the crucial phrase of Murray’s contract saying that “The doctor is to perform services reasonably requested by Producer”. But Murray specially requested her to change it, so why didn’t she?
![services approved by the producer]()
4) And why did another paragraph (3.3) say that they were to supply the equipment to assist Murray to provide the services approved by the Producer? So AEG were supposed not only to request but also to approve his services, and this is how big AEG’s power over Murray was?
5) Why didn’t she send Murray’s contract to MJ’s representatives? Especially considering the fact that Branca asked Randy Phillips to send him every paper to be signed by MJ and not allow him to sign anything without his approval?
6) Has Kathy Jorrie ever read Tohme saying in Sullivan’s book that Conrad Murray’s salary was AEG’s responsibility and this is what Michael insisted on and AEG even agreed to it? Sullivan can be trusted in providing us this information – he repeated without any discrimination or criticism everybody else’s stories, so we can perfectly rely on Sullivan here – retelling the story the way it was told to him is his biggest and most valuable asset.
You will not find truthful replies from Jorrie to any of the above questions so you won’t lose anything if you skip her long testimony of polished lies and go over direct to Wednesday. Her testimony is provided here only for the record:
Tuesday August 6, 2013
Hello from the courthouse in downtwon LA. Day 63 of Jackson family vs AEG trial, Week 15, underway.
Katherine Jackson is present in court, wearing a purple jacket with black flowers on it.
Judge Yvette Palazuelos and attorneys spent more than 1 hour and 15 mins this morning discussing boundaries for next witness, Kathy Jorrie.
Jorrie is a lawyer who works for AEG and put together Murray’s contract. Both sides argued extensively regarding attorney-client privilege.
Jury entered the courtroom at 11:09 am PT. AEG called Kathleen Ann Jorrie, an attorney who works at a private firm and does work for AEG.
Attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina did direct examination.
Jorrie said she’s in the business for 20 years. She did undergraduate at UCLA and got JD degree at Hastings College of Law.
Jorrie is a partner at a law firm, works in Los Angeles. Her firm is an international company with close to 80 attorneys in the LA office.
Jorrie said she splits her work between being a trial litigator and transactional work, one who deals with contracts.
The focus of her clients has been the entertainment business. Her clients involve motion pictures studios, television content producers.
She also works with movie distributors, satellite providers, live entertainment promoters, etc.
Jorrie said she works with AEG Live and AEG in their live entertainment business. She deals with Shawn Trell (who testified earlier on.)
The attorney said she worked on more than 75 tour agreements with prominent artists, Rolling Stones, Bon Jovi, Britney Spears, Kanye West.
Over the years, Jorrie said Trell asked her to help negotiate agreements with vendors. She said she normally works on big agreements.
Jorrie worked on third party agreements for “This Is It” tour. She worked on deal with Bravado for merchandising, negotiated stage.
Jorrie also did the contract for Dr. Conrad Murray that Michael Jackson requested.
I drafted the version that was sent to Mr. Wooley, who provided my draft agreement to Dr. Murray, Jorrie explained.
Jorrie said, to her best recollection, she received a call from Timm Wooley to help prepare an agreement for Dr. Murray in late May of 2009.
The attorney never talked to Murray before drawing the first draft. Initial draft was based on basic terms Wooley provided her, Jorrie said.
Jorrie: He told me that MJ had agreed to pay $150,000 per month for Dr. Murray, that Dr. Murray was MJ’s personal physician.
In addition to providing medical care, Dr. Murray would be on call for emergencies, Jorrie explained.
Jorrie said nurse would be provided as selected by Dr. Murray and paid for by AEG Live. The doctor would have the air fare to/from London.
Also, the doctor and family would be provided housing in London.
Wooley said Dr. Murray wanted personal insurance in case he got sick. The payment to commence as of May 1, 2009.
Jorrie said he did not say what ended point would be. She put all the terms in the first draft agreement, but most details were missing.
Jorrie said she included other important terms:
– End date to be end of O2 arena in Sept. 2009
– Termination provision
– Indemnity
Jorrie said she sent the draft to Wooley and if he was happy with it to forward it to Dr. Murray.
Jorrie said there were 2 more drafts after the first. She said she looked at other AEG agreement contracts she had prepared AEG as template.
Jorrie explained she worked off the base contract and included a bunch of other provisions to the agreement.
Jorrie said the “Scope of Services” was a mix between what Wooley requested and her additions.
At Wooley’s request, she included that Dr. Murray was MJ’s personal physician and had been for some time.
Jorrie added “services to be provided by Dr. Murray administer those services professionally and greatest degree of care expected.”
The attorney said Wooley told her that Michael Jackson had asked Dr. Murray to go on tour with him and that MJ would pay for it.
Jorrie said she included in the contract “Artist Consent,” saying the contract was not enforceable unless and until MJ signed the agreement.
She said she added a line for MJ’s signature at the end of the document.
Jorrie said this provision was included in the 1st draft. She said Murray had no comment regarding the first 2 provisions of the contract.
Jorrie said Recital A, Paragraph 9 and wording above MJ’s signature explained Dr. Murray was hired on behalf of Michael Jackson.
Jorrie explained the Termination provision that allowed AEG to terminate the contract with Dr. Murray.
Termination:
1- in event there was a default of the agreement by the doctor
2- in the event series of concerts postponed or canceled
3- if artist decided he no longer wanted or needed Murray
4- failed to maintain all licenses and approval to practice medicine
5- failed to submit written evidence that he was legally authorized to practice medicine in US
6- no later than July 3rd, evidence he was allowed to practice medicine in the UK
Jorrie said she believes she sent the email to Wooley/Dr. Murray on June 15. She testified she never received any documents from Dr. Murray.
Jorrie said Murray called her on 6/18/09:
1- Murray and MJ relationship
2- Some of changes he wanted made
3- Couple of questions Jorrie had
The attorney said the conversation about Dr. Murray and MJ relationship did not result in any change to the contract.
Jorrie: The changes he mentioned to me during the call, he wanted his company GCA Holdings to be the contracting party instead of him.
Dr. Murray also wanted to change provision where Jorrie referred to nurse.
Jorrie explained Dr. Murray said he wanted flexibility to have a “qualified assistant medical person,” who could be another physician.
Another change requested was to provision 7.7 regarding termination, Jorrie said.
Jorrie: He also let me know he was license to practice medicine in 4 states and gave me the states.
Jorrie: Dr. Murray told me he preferred to have GCA Holding as contracting party and he as employee of the company.
Jorrie said that it was okay but she wanted Dr. Murray on the contract also.
Jorrie: I asked why you needed another physician as opposed to a nurse. He told me in case he was unavailable or tired.
Jorrie said Dr. Murray wanted to have the flexibility to have someone on stand by, payable for by AEG Live.
Jorrie said ultimately she made the changes. Dr. Murray was the one who would identify who this medical person would be, but never did.
The attorney said Dr. Murray told her he was licensed to practice medicine in California, Nevada, Texas and Hawaii.
The first payment was to be no later than 5 days after contracted was fully signed by everybody, including Michael Jackson.
Dr. Murray wanted to modify section 7.7, termination either because MJ decided he didn’t want him anymore or the concert canceled.
As a result, he would not want to be in a position he would have to refund any part of his payment.
Payment was due to him on the 15th of the month to cover from 1st-30th. If he were terminated on the 20th, he wanted to keep full payment.
Jorrie: My response: Dr. Murray, $150,000/month is a lot of money!
Jorrie said Dr. Murray told her he had 4 medical practices making a million dollar a month, and it was not fair to have to return money.
Jorrie: Murray said under no circumstances he was leaving his practice if when terminated he couldn’t keep the whole 150,000 received.
Jorrie explained that provision 7.7 detailed what happened if there was a termination. Dr. Murray asked her to limit that provision.
Jorrie: He had asked to be able to retain the full payment for the month he received.
He thought it would be fair and appropriate due to him leaving his established medical practice, Jorrie explained.
Jorrie said she asked Murray about the CPR machine. The doctor provided a list of equipment he needed to Wooley, who in turn sent to Jorrie.
Jorrie: I asked Dr. Murray, why do you need a CPR machine? He said he needed one in London, MJ puts on a strenuous performance.
Jorrie asked if O2 arena didn’t have one. He said he didn’t want to take risks, wanted one at hand. He also told her it’s customary.
Giving Michael’s age, giving his age, and that he puts on a strenuous performance, he just didn’t want to take a chance, Jorrie said.
Jorrie recalled there was other equipments on the list, normally for dehydration purposes, like saline and catheter.
Contract said “producer to provide medical equipment portable CPR, saline, catheter, needles, gurney and other mutually approved equipment.”
Jorrie: Our conversation concerned London, he said he needed one (CPR machine) in London.
Jorrie said she took the information she got from Dr. Murray, went online and checked it out.
The attorney said she went to the Nevada Secretary of State to check if GCA Holdings, LLC was indeed a valid company.
Jorrie said she checked the medical boards Dr. Murray told her he was licenses and googled the doctor.
Jorrie testified GCA was a proper company and Dr. Murray was the manager of it. She added the address on the contract and Dr. Murray’s title
Jorrie said it was very easy to check the medical licenses. She went on the Medical Board websites and checked his licenses in all.
There was no disciplinary action against Dr. Murray, Jorrie said. She checked in California, Nevada, Texas and Hawaii.
Jorrie testified she did the medical license check on June 18, 2009. She said she sent the draft to Dr. Murray, but the email bounced back.
She then sent email to Wooley asking him to forward the contract to Murray.
Jorrie said she also attached a comparison doc with the redlines marking the changes she made for easier understanding.
Jorrie explained it’s her practice to save doc as “final pdf version.” She said it is a personal indicator that the final version was sent.
The attorney told the jury once the contract is fully executed, she saves it “fully executed.”
Jorrie said she was asked by the general counsel to see if she could ask Dr. Murray for the medical history for insurance purpose.
Dr. Murray said he had told me he had been MJ’s physician for a period of time, Jorrie expressed.
Bina: Did you send this email because you believe Dr. Murray was MJ’s physician?
Jorrie: Yes.
Jorrie asked that if Dr. Murray was not the right doctor to provide records, if he could please direct her to the appropriate physician.
The attorney said Dr. Murray told her he would help. Jorrie explained she had 3 drafts of Dr. Murray’s agreement.
GCA would actually provide the services of Dr. Murray, Jorrie said. The $150k would be paid not to Dr. Murray, but to GCA Holdings.
Jorrie changed Provision 3.4 at the request of Dr. Murray, from nurse to qualified medical person (assistant).
Change in 7.7: If there’s termination, GCA shall have no obligation to refund any portion of any installation due and payable before.
Jorrie said Dr. Murray called her again on June 23, 2009 asking for some more changes.
Jorrie spoke with Randy Phillips on June 19, 2009 on an unrelated matter and Dr. Murray’s subject came up.
It was phone conversation, she relayed Dr. Murray was licensed to practice in 4 states. “I checked out, or confirmed the info,” she said.
Jorrie testified she told Phillips Murray appeared to be very successful in his practice, may have told him about a million dollar a month.
I definitely told him he’s very successful in his practice, Jorrie said. “I confirmed he was licensed to practice in 4 states.”
Jorrie: AEG Live has been a consistent client of mine since 2000. Approximately 300 matters have been opened in 12 years.
First change was the effective date, from June [24] to May 1, 2009, Jorrie said.
Jorrie: He said he was promised that when the agreement was signed he would’ve been paid retroactively to May 1, 2009.
When Bina asked about payment provision, Panish objected to prevent Jorrie from expressing her opinion about the contract.
Judge: I’m going to strike the entire testimony if she keeps interpreting the contract.
Jorrie: He wanted to extend, by about 5 months, his engagement.
End date changed from Sept, 2009 to March, 2010
Jorrie asked if MJ would be paying him even though the tour would be on break. He said yes.
1- Scope of Services — it had language saying perform services reasonably requested by “Producer.”
Jorrie: Murray said we need to change that to Artist, it’s the artist who’s my patient. I said absolutely right, the artist is your patient.
Jorrie said provision 4.1 also says “Perform the Services reasonably requested by Producer.”
Jorrie: I didn’t change it to Artist because Murray didn’t draw my attention to that and I didn’t remember that language was in there twice.
Jorrie said if she had seen it, she would’ve changed it to Artist, not Producer.
Bina asked if on June 23 Jorrie discussed with Dr. Murray to get MJ’s medical history. She said yes.
Jorrie revised the agreement, emailed to Dr. Murray on 6/23/09: saying ‘I have attached a clean pdf version, which is ready for execution.’
Jorrie said she sent 3rd version of the draft to AEG Live. She didn’t send it to MJ or his reps, was not in communication with MJ about it.
Jorrie explained it was never her understanding that MJ’s medical records would have been sent to her but to insurance underwriter.
Jorrie: Late in the evening on June 24, I received a fax with a document signed by Dr. Murray. I forwarded a copy to it to Mr. Trell.
Jorrie said neither Michael Jackson nor AEG signed the contract.
The attorney said she has negotiated with third party vendors before without showing the drafts to the artist.
Jorrie: The reasons is that attorneys for the artist would have the document exactly like they wanted.
Judge: How do you know if you don’t talk to the artist that the agreement is what the artist’s want?
Sometimes we enter in agreements the artists never see, Jorrie told the court.
Jorrie said this is the first third-party vendor agreement she was involved with a medical doctor.
Jorrie sent Dr. Murray the last version on June 23rd, Dr. Murray faxed it back on June 24th.
Jorrie said she didn’t talk to Murray about specific treatment he was giving to MJ. “He didn’t tell me anything he was doing to treat MJ.”
Bina: Did Dr. Murray ever ask you for payment?
Jorrie: Never.
Jorrie explained paragraph 4 of the contract, which detailed the responsibilities of GCA/Dr. Murray.
Jorrie testified she discussed with Dr. Murray the requirement for UK medical license either on June 18 or 23.
Jorrie said July 3, 2009 was the date Dr. Murray was planning to go to London with Michael Jackson.
Bina showed the last page of Dr. Murray’s agreement. Under the signatures, it is dated June 24, 2009.
Jorrie said she put that date since she thought the parties would’ve signed the contract that day.
I do not know if Michael Jackson would’ve signed the agreement, Jorrie testified.
Regarding the reference that AEG hired doctor at request of MJ, Jorrie said she never did this on any other agreement on behalf of AEG.
Because we’re talking about Michael Jackson’s physician, Jorrie explained.
Recap:
June 15th — first draft written, sent to Dr. Murray
June 18th — negotiation with Dr. Murray began, over the phone
June 19th — checked medical license, business standing
June 19th — spoke with Phillips about it
June 23rd – Murray called asking additional changes
June 23rd – third draft sent to Murray
June 24th – Murray signed it and faxed it back
Jorrie emailed Dr. Murray one more time after that related to the insurance for the tour.
In cross examination, Panish asked if Jorrie is an independent witness.
Jorrie: I don’t understand the question, Mr. Panish.
Panish: Are you being paid for the work you’ve done in this case?
Jorrie: I’m not being paid as I sit here today.
Panish asked if her company has received millions and millions of dollars from AEG. She said since 2000, yes.
Panish inquired if Jorrie is friends with Randy Phillips and Paul Gongaware.
I’d like to think all my clients are my friends, Mr. Panish, Jorrie explained. “They are business friends.”
I’m aware that Mr. Gongaware was sued one time, but I want to be absolutely certain, Jorrie said.
Panish: Professionals keep itemization of the work they do, don’t they?
Jorrie said she keeps tabs of the work she does.
Panish asked if Jorrie hires expert witnesses. She said yes. He inquired if professionals keep itemization. She said yes.
Panish: Have you ever paid an expert $700,000?
Jorrie: I have not.
Panish asked if Jorrie brought the contract she used as basis for drafting Dr. Murray’s contract.
Jorrie said she has it in her office. Panish asked to see it, she said she can provide it, redacting the name of the third party.
Jorrie charges AEG $595 per hour. She said she’s not billing AEG for the testimony today.
Panish: How much have you billed AEG related to the “This Is It” project?
Jolie: Work started in October 2008.
Jorrie asked if it included litigation. Panish said yes.
Jorrie: Of all matters related to This Is It?
Panish: Yes. More than 20 million?
J: Of course not
P: 10 million?
J: No
P: 5 million?
J: No
Jorrie said she can have her accounting department put together a spreadsheet with all she has billed AEG.
Panish said Paul Gongaware and John Meglen were sued for stealing the name Concerts West.
Bina objected, saying the lawsuit was dismissed and Panish was trying to tarnish Gongaware and Meglen’s reputation.
Judge: Was the case dismissed?
Panish: Yes
Judge: Then it’s not stealing. Please refrain from using that word. Describe it accurately.
Jorrie: For all of those matters, for 12 years, it would be millions of dollars.
Panish: How many multi-million dollars has your company been paid?
Jorrie: It could be over $5 million for that period of time (since 2000).
Panish: You knew MJ was going on a 3-5 years worldwide tour, correct?
Jorrie: That’s not correct.
Putnam was present when Jorrie spoke with LAPD after Michael Jackson’s death.
Panish: Did you go meet with LAPD and discussed MJ going to go on a worldwide tour?
Jorrie: No, they came to my office, asked questions.
Panish: Did you tell LAPD the that MJ was going on a world tour?
Jorrie: No.
Panish: Did you say European tour was just the beginning and MJ would be making a worldwide tout?
Jorrie: Not that I recall.
That’s not my statement and I don’t recall that, Jorrie testified.
Panish: Did you tell LAPD that MJ was going on a worldwide tour after European leg was over?
Jorrie: No.
Panish: Did Mr. Putnam tell LAPD MJ was going to do a world tour for 3 to 5 years?
Jorrie: Yes. Not like that.
Panish: You denied making that statement?
Panish asked if Detective Schmidt is called to testified and said Jorrie told him about MJ going on a worldwide tour, if that’s a lie.
He would’ve been mistaken, Mr. Panish, Jorrie said. “Because he misunderstood what I was saying about the tour.”.
Jorrie said she did not bill for the time she testified at deposition.
Panish: Did you tell the police department Dr. Murray took in $12 million a year?
I said that he told me that his 4 medical practices brought in more than a million dollars a year, Jorrie said.
Panish: Did you say one million dollar a month?
Jorrie: Dr. Murray had 4 practices, I told one million dollars a year and they added up to 12 million. [Note: Does 1mln times 4 make 12 mln?]
I spoke with him about the tour agreement and how it would work, Jorrie testified.
Judge adjourned session until tomorrow at 9:30 am PT. Jorrie will be back on the stand to resume cross examination.
Judge said Ortega all day Thursday & Friday. Rowe next week.
Debbie Rowe
Kenny Ortega
Kathy Jorrie — tomorrow
Upcoming Witnesses:
We hope to see you tomorrow for full coverage of the trial. For latest, watch @abc7 and http://www.abc7.com . Have a good evening!
Wednesday August 7, 2013
On Wednesday August 7, 2013 Kathy Jorrie continues with her lies but over here some interesting answers are elicited from her:
1. She says the contract with Michael Jackson was signed on January 26th, 2009. But Shawn Trell, who saw Michael just once said that he went to sign a contract with Michael on January 28. Can someone please explain how AEG can have two dates for one and the same event?
A quote from Shawn Trell::
A I’m sure the contract signing is the only time I met Michael Jackson
Q no sir, you told us ten times, and counsel had it in her questions, that on January 26th, 2009, you met Michael Jackson, and he signed all of those agreements. You told us all about that, didn’t you, sir?
A that’s my recollection yes
And here is the famous exchange of emails saying that Trell is going to sign a contract (and meet the “freak”) on January 28, 2009:
![Freak]()
2. Panish rightfully points out that Kathy Jorrie overlooked the “mistake” that Murray was to perform the services requested of him by the Producer not just once, but on 4 drafts of Murray’s contract. Jorrie does not explain why.
3. Kathy Jorrie also prepared a letter for Tohme to sign on behalf of Michael’s company stating that MJ agreed to cover production costs. However Tohme was not a ligit representative, but our good lawayer naturally “didn’t know” about it – she didn’t know that he was never a representative of Michael’s company same that she never knew that Tohme had been terminated by Michael Jackson from whatever position he had.
4. When Panish asked her why she didn’t verify with John Branca on June 28th, 2009 whether Tohme representated Michael or not, in reply she challenged him with a defiant question “and why did Branca agree to pay the expenses then”?
Panish’s answer was intriguing – and how did she know that he agreed if she never saw the budget papers she says she never saw?
(Indeed, Kathie Jorrie isn’t an AEG employee and is not privy to this information, is she?)
5. And the next phrase about the “implication that the Estate didn’t recognize contract as valid” made me jump on my seat – so there is some hope that the Estate also considered the contract invalid?
Can it be that the Lord heard my prayers at last?
Wednesday August 7, 2013 DAY 64
Hello from the courthouse in downtown LA. Day 64 of Jackson family vs AEG trial, Week 15, is underway. We’re now on lunch break.
Kathy Jorrie is back on the stand for cross examination. Brian Panish, attorney for the Jacksons, doing the questioning.
Jorrie brought copy of the contract she used as template to draft Dr. Conrad Murray’s agreement.
She also gathered an estimate AEG paid her law firm since 2000, covering 14 years of work. Panish asked if it was in excess of $7.2 million.
Jorrie: It’s my estimate that my firm received a little over $ 7 million since 2000, which is about $500,000/year for services for AEG Live.
Panish: Did you say you negotiated probably 75 agreements with artists?
Jorrie: It’s about 75, but it could be more, all for AEG Live.
Panish: Where you representing Michael Jackson when you were preparing Dr. Murray’s contract?
Jorrie: I was not.
Regarding the LAPD conversation, Panish asked Jorrie if she was represented by Marvin Putnam in that meeting. She said no.
I really didn’t feel like I needed representation in that meeting, sir, Jorrie said. “I was a witness.”
Panish asked if Jorrie represented herself, since she is a lawyer. She said she doesn’t know how to answer, you always represent yourself as attorney
Jorrie met with LAPD twice in her office. Detective Smith questioned her, Putnam and Deborah Brazil, one of the DAs prosecuting Murray, were present
Panish: Do you remember telling me yesterday that you never told LAPD that MJ was engaged to go on worldwide tour?
Jorrie: Yes
Panish: Do you remember you denying telling the police department that statement?
Jorrie: Yes
Panish asked if after reviewing LAPD’s interview, Jorrie contacted Det. Smith to fix it. She said no, read it only months later.
Panish: Did AEG ever enter into a tour agreement with Michael Jackson that required him to do a world tour?
Jorrie: Yes
Jorrie explained some things had to happen before the world tour could take place.
She said the world tour was contemplated, but it didn’t mean it was going to happen.
Jorrie explained that if the parties agreed, then the tour could go on beyond London.
Jorrie said Dr. Tohme was a manager for Michael Jackson during the time they negotiated the tour and continued until the time of death.
Michael Jackson’s contract with AEG was signed on Jan 26, 2009.
Panish: Did you ever have reservations in January 2009 about Dr. Tohme?
Jorrie: I did
Jorrie said she googled Tohme and couldn’t see he was a music manager.
Panish asked Jorrie if she checks people on google. “That’s usually my first step in the process,” she responded.
Jorrie: As an alternative, yes.
Panish: And you recommended that a background check be done on Tohme, right?
![not the real McCoy]()
Kathy Jorrie: “Tohme is not the real McCoy” (click to enlarge)
Jorrie explained she recommended at minimum that someone meet with MJ to make sure he understands he’s entering into worldwide tour agreement.
Jorrie said background check was not done on Dr. Tohme, at least to her knowledge. She didn’t do one.
Jorrie explained promoters and producers can and do negotiate third party vendors agreement as part of the business.
The attorney said she was very much involved in drafting Michael Jackson’s agreement with AEG.
Panish said Jorrie refused to have her deposition videotaped. Jorrie explained she was not properly notified about video deposition.
Dennis Hawk, Tohme Tohme and Michael Jackson’s company received a copy of MJ contract with AEG, according to Jorrie’s deposition.
Panish: On January [June] 28, Mr. Tohme approved the cost in excess of $7.5 million, correct?
Jorrie: On January [June] 28, Dr. Tohme had provided written approval that MJ company had approved certain production costs.
Jorrie said it’s actually June 28, 2009, not January as she previously stated. MJ died on June 25, 2009.
Panish: At the time of MJ’s death, are you aware of anyone approving production costs in excess of $7.5 million that was in the contract?
Jorrie: I’m not privy to everything, so I don’t know.
Panish: Did you ever see a written agreement for more than 31 shows as stated on the contract?
Jorrie: No, not that I recall.
Panish: The agreement specified the territory of the tour as the world, correct?
Jorrie: Correct
Panish shows contract of Michael Jackson with AEG.
Panish: And the term was Dec 2011 or conclusion of world tour, whichever occur later, right?
Jorrie: That’s what it says in the paragraph.
The contract says the shows were not to exceed 1 per day and 3.5 shows per 7 days.
Panish asked, if under the contract, Michael Jackson was prohibited to tour except if done with AEG.
Jorrie was not allowed to answer, since it calls to interpretation of the contract.
Jorrie said she sent the contract to Michael Jackson’s representatives.
Panish: Did you ever learn Tohme ceased being MJ’s manager?
Jorrie: To my best recollection, that issue came up after Mr. Jackson’s passing.
The fact that Tohme stopped representing MJ came up and it’s in litigation, Jorrie said.
Jorrie said Howard Weitzman, attorney for Michael Jackson’s Estate, told her about Tohme in connection with litigation several years ago.
Frank DiLeo may also have told her, she said. There’s also litigation about it as well.
Jorrie said she doesn’t recall if Weitzman was the first person who told her about Dr. Tohme not representing MJ at one point.
On June 28, 2009, there was a meeting at John Branca’s office with all the higher ups for AEG and MJ’s representatives.
Panish: AEG was out $34-plus million at the time?
Jorrie: I believe so, perhaps more.
Panish: On that day you questioned if Dr. Tohme was an officer of Michael Jackson’s company?
Jorrie: I did.
Panish: And that day you didn’t have anything in writing approving $34 million in expenses?
Jorrie: Correct.
Jorrie said she believed Dr. Tohme was an officer of MJ’s company prior to June 28, 2009. Paul Gongaware may have been the one telling her.
During the meeting on June 28, Jorrie said Tohme told her, personally, that he was an officer of Michael Jackson Company, LLC.
Jorrie said in Delaware you can’t check officers for LLC online.
Panish: Did you look up to see if Dr. Tohme was an officer of MJ’s LLC?
Panish inquired if Jorrie could’ve asked MJ directly if Tohme was an officer of his company. She said yes, if she felt it was necessary.
Panish: You never spoke with Michael Jackson, did you?
Jorrie: Not once.
![Production costs summary]()
Tohme was no officer of MJ company either in January or June 2009 when he approved all production costs on Michael’s behalf
Jorrie was involved in drafting a consent agreement for Tohme to sign.
Panish: Who signed the tour agreement on behalf of Michael Jackson’s company?
Jorrie: Michael Jackson.
As of January 2009, Michael Jackson was the sole officer and signatory of Michael Jackson Company, LLC.
Jorrie received that information from MJ’s attorney, Dennis Hawk.
Panish: Before MJ died you had nothing in writing that MJ was not the sole company officer?
Jorrie: Nothing in writing was provided to me.
Jorrie said in the meeting they were getting consent from Tohme that production expenses had been approved by MJ’s company.
Panish: But you needed someone approved by MJ’s company, right?
Jorrie: That’s why we had confirmation he was an agent.
Total expense was around $34 million, plus $7.5 million that was pre-approved based on the contract resulted in $27 million outstanding.
Panish: AEG had $27 million out there that they had spent?
Jorrie: That’s my understanding.
Panish: And you and Mr. Trell had a document you gave Tohme at the meeting?
Jorrie: Yes.
Panish: And the word “consent” was there?
Jorrie: I’m not sure it was there.
The document was prepared by Trell and Jorrie prior to the meeting at Branca’s office.
Panish showed Jorrie a letter from Michael Jackson to Randy Phillips on April 22, 2009.
The document, signed by Michael Jackson, terminated Dr. Tohme’s representation as his manager.
Jorrie said she does not recall seeing it.
Letter from Concerts West to The Michael Jackson Company, LLC Jorrie helped draft, dated June 28, 2009.
1.I hereby confirm that Artistco (MJ) approved the attached budget of expenses which includes Production Costs and Pool Expenses
3.The undersigned Dr. Tohme Tohme represents he’s officer of Artistco, has full authority to act on behalf of Artistco/to sign this document
Panish: You never asked Tohme after MJ died if he was an officer of MJ’s company?
Jorrie: That’s right.
Jorrie: He confirmed to me, at the meeting, that he was an officer of Michael Jackson’s company.
Panish: Did you see any document saying Tohme was an agent of Michael Jackson’s company?
Jorrie: I had not seen any such documents.
Panish: Did you make any effort to confirm Tohme was an officer of the company? Jorrie said she spoke with Tohme about it.
Panish asked if Jorrie inquired John Branca, MJ’s attorney, if Tohme was authorized to sign on behalf of Michael Jackson Company, LLC.
Panish asked if she discussed with Branca about Tohme signing the document. Jorrie said she didn’t
I didn’t ask him that question, Jorrie said.
Panish said the document she handed to Tohme has a budget attached to it. Jorrie said she did not review the attached budget.
Jorrie said budget was given to her by Gongaware. Panish asked if the budget included payment of $150k/month, times 2 months, for Murray.
Since Jorrie testified she didn’t read the document, there is no foundation for her to answer the question. Judge sustained the objection.
I had nothing in writing that said Tohme was an officer of Michael Jackson’s company, Jorrie testified.
Panish asked if Jorrie saw the attached budget. “I never looked at that, that was Paul’s job,” she answered.
I have never seen a single piece of paper saying Tohme was not an office of the company, Jorrie said.
Jorrie: Why would the Estate approve the expenses then, sir?
Panish argued Jorrie doesn’t know what’s on the budget, so how does she know the Estate paid what’s requested.
Jorrie: I know Dr. Murray was not paid because he was not entitled to be paid.
Panish: Was Dr. Tohme there on the budget for $200,000?
Objection, sustained (since she had not read it.)
Judge told Panish to move on or she will cease the examination.
Defendants objected again based on attorney-client privilege
Panish: Mr Trell never told you about this document (MJ’s termination of Tohme)
Judge sustained the objection and ordered lunch break.
Outside the presence of the jury: Judge Yvette Palazuelos to Panish: You keep invading attorney-client privilege.
Judge: As to the budget — she keeps telling you she didn’t review it. Any question about the budget is without foundation.
Judge: I don’t want to waste time with that, over and over. I know you understand the ruling, I assume you have nothing better to ask.
If you don’t move on I’ll shut down the examination, Judge Palazuelos told Panish.
Panish explained what he was trying to do, that Jorrie volunteers and continue to volunteer what is not asked, almost more than any witness.
Panish: It’s improper what she did, your honor. As member of the bar, she knew as of January that this person was not officer of the company
Panish: Nonetheless she, as concerned he was not the real Mccoy, brought document to him with $34 million for him to sign off.
Bina said it was done in good faith, Tohme told her he was an officer of the company. She said DiLeo also told Jorrie MJ approved the budget
Panish: When she says my client told that, why can’t I ask about communication about that?
Judge ordered Panish to move on or she will finish his examination.
After lunch, outside the presence of the jury, Panish told judge he’s excluding anything that’s potential violation of atty-client privilege
Panish asked the judge to strike testimony of Jorrie when she issued opinion that the Estate didn’t pay Murray because he wasn’t entitled to
Jacksons attorneys want the judge to tell the jurors to disregard it, since the implication is the Estate didn’t recognize contract as valid
Jury entered the courtroom at 1:42 pm PT. Katherine Jackson is present in court wearing a navy blue jacket over a floor-length dress.
Jorrie explained she doesn’t recall working on agreements where AEG was both producer and promoter of the show.
Jorrie said she never worked on a contract for a doctor to go on tour, except for Michael Jackson.
Email from Murray to Wooley: I am basically in agreement and reiterate that your memo is correct pursuant to our conversation of May 8, 2009
Email cont’d: As for good faith with my client I’m sure that you are aware that my services are already fully engaged with Mr. Jackson.
Jorrie said she doesn’t recall receiving or seeing this email. Murray never told her he was meeting with AEG people regarding his contract.
Panish: Did Dr. Murray ever tell you he met with AEG personal at anyone’s request?
Jorrie: No
Wooley did not tell Jorrie that Dr. Murray’s services were being rendered.
Panish: Did you ever tell Dr. Murray he could not perform work without a fully executed contract?
Jorrie: Of course not.
Jorrie spoke with Murray about getting medical license to work in the UK. She knew Brigitte Segal was looking for housing in London for him.
Panish asked if it was in anticipation the contract would be all signed by July 3, 2009.
Panish: They were undertaking acts that were spelled out in the contract?
Jorrie: Yes.
Panish: Dr. Murray was undertaking acts that were spelled out in the contract?
Jorrie: I was told he was the personal physician for 3 years.
Panish showed the template contract Jorrie used to create Dr. Murray’s agreement. Jorrie said she took out paragraph 7 about Conflicts.
Panish: Regarding pay, equipment, starting and ending date provided by Mr. Wooley and not Dr. Murray, correct?
Jorrie: That’s not right, Mr. Wooley didn’t give me an ending date, for instance.
CPR machine was on the list Wooley provided to Jorrie regarding the requirements for Dr. Murray.
Panish played video of Jorrie’s testimony in Murray’s trial. She said in latter part of May, Wooley advised her he needed contract prepared.
May 1, 2009 is the commencement of the contract. Jorrie sent the contract to Dr. Murray on June 15, 6 weeks later.
Panish: Did you ever testify that payments had been promised to Dr. Murray retroactively to May 1?
Jorrie: Yes, once the contract was signed
Panish played another part of Jorrie’s testimony in the criminal trial.
DA asked if irrespective of the contract becoming activated, Murray was contemplating compensation from a period retroactively to 5/1/09.
Panish discussed paragraphs 3 and 4 of the contract, which spelled out the obligations for AEG and Dr. Murray.
Panish asked if AEG could terminate Dr. Murray without the consent of Michael Jackson.
Jorrie: Yes
He told me his four medical practice was grossing a million dollars a month, Jorrie testified.
Panish: Did you find his website?
Jorrie: No, I didn’t find a website.
Panish said $150,000 per month equates to $5,000 a day for 30 days.
Jorrie put Conrad Murray and the names of his two clinics on google.
Jorrie: He said he had 4 medical practice, but I only found 2 clinics.
Panish: He was making a million dollars with two clinics?
Jorrie said she could find addresses for only 2 clinics, but Dr. Murray told her he had 4 medical practices.
Jorrie explained she looked up Dr. Murray’s medical license and two clinics are named.
I don’t know for sure it was his companies, Jorrie admitted. “It was my assumption they were his.”
Jorrie said the clinics were in Nevada and Texas, didn’t find anything in Hawaii and California.
The attorney said she spent about 10 minutes researching Dr. Murray online. Panish asked if Jorrie charged AEG for the time she spent.
Jorrie: Yes, for all my clients.
Panish: Sometimes you do freebies for AEG?
She said she doesn’t know.
Jorrie uses Lexis for legal research, she said. Panish asked if she checked how many judgments existed against Dr. Murray. She said not.
Jorrie didn’t check any pending lawsuits, litigation regarding child support or if Dr. Murray’s properties were in foreclosure.
Jorrie conceded she could’ve searched Dr. Murray in Lexis.
I definitely said he (Murray) appears to be successful, Jorrie said about her conversation with Randy Phillips.
Panish: And you determined Dr. Murray was successful based on 2 clinics?
Jorrie: No, it was based on my conversation with him and verifying the fact that he was licensed to practice medicine in 4 states.
Panish: Did you tell Phillips Dr.Murray made a million dollars a month?
Jorrie: I think I told him he (doctor) appeared to be successful and may have told him about his practices making a million dollars a month.
P: You verified licenses, googled him for 10 mins?
Jorrie: Yes
Panish: Your successful assessment was based on what Murray told you?
J: Yes
Panish asked Jorrie if Dr. Murray had to shut down his practice in order to work for MJ. She said no.
Panish: Dr. Murray could keep, sell or have someone else run his practices as to retain the $12 million/year revenue?
Jorrie: Yes
Jorrie never communicated with anyone representing Michael Jackson regarding Dr. Murray’s contract.
She did not send MJ or his reps any draft of the agreement, but sent them to Shawn Trell at AEG.
Dr. Murray called Jorrie on June 23, 2009 and told her he spoke with MJ about extending the end of the contract to March.
Dr. Murray would receive salary for 3 months plus without working, since the tour would be off, Jorrie said.
Panish asked if Jorrie checked with anyone in MJ’s camp whether the artist had indeed approved the extension of the contract. She said no.
I did not check anything with MJ’s representatives about Dr. Murray’s contract, Jorrie testified.
Jorrie sent the last version to Murray on June 23, 2009. All versions said 4.1- Perform the Services reasonably requested by Producer.
Jorrie’s files:
Murray Agreement 6-15-09
Revised MJ/AEG/GCA Holdings Agreement 6-18-09
Final MJ-AEG-GCA Holdings Agreement/Dr Murray 6-23-09
Panish concluded cross examination. Jessica Stebbins Bina did re-direct of Jorrie.
Jorrie said the names of the files included all signatories of contract.
Because it was for Michael Jackson’s physician, Jorrie explained
Jorrie said she values the relationship with AEG, but that does not prevent her from testifying in a truthful manner.
Bina asked about the time Jorrie represented Gongaware and Meglen.
She said it was a lawsuit filed by the children of Tom Hulett against AEG Live, Paul Gongaware and John Meglen.
Panish’s old firm represented the children, Jorrie said. It was a trademark infringement case.
We prevailed in all counts, Jorrie said.
Jorrie said plaintiffs claimed they were using Concerts West name without permission.
Jorrie: My clients received the judgment. It was appealed and the judgment in favor of my clients was affirmed.
The tour agreement had a potential to be a world tour Jorrie said. “In order for tour to continue beyond London, the parties had to agree”
Michael Jackson could’ve chosen not to approve the itinerary, Jorrie said.
Jorrie told LAPD detective that the agreement had potential to be extended to a world tour, based on mutually-approved itinerary.
Bina asked about paragraph 11 of MJ’s contract, which talked about “Approvals.” It says no party can withhold approval unreasonably.
Initial production advance not to exceed $7.5 million.
Contract Section 8.2 — Production cost
Bina: Based on that provision, if they request them (costs), they are responsible for them?
Jorrie: Yes
Jorrie explained, based on the contract, AEG was to recoup all costs incurred for production. Outstanding balance was MJ’s responsibility.
Bina showed the document Tohme Tohme signed approving the costs of production.
Jorrie said John Branca requested a meeting on June 28, 2009 to discuss several issues, among which how to unravel the tour.
Branca was named executor of MJ’s estate, had to be approved by probate court.
At this point, judge adjourned trial until tomorrow at 9:45 am PT. Kenny Ortega will be back to testify tomorrow.
Jorrie is ordered to be on call to conclude her testimony, probably Friday morning and Randy Jackson’s depo Friday afternoon.
We hope to see you tomorrow for full coverage of the trial. For latest, watch @ABC7 and visit http://www.abc7.com . Good night everyone!
Thursday August 8, 2013. DAY 65
There is something fundamentally wrong in examining a witness on one date and cross-examining him three months later. No one remembers the weak points of his earlier testimony, and all of it has to be started afresh with the only difference that now it turns into some small talk with little new information added and the old information already forgotten, and all attention is focusing now on the witness’s pleasant manners and a nice tan.
What for did they ask Kenny Ortega to the stand again? To make him out as a great friend of Michael Jackson and an impartial witness?
But Ortega is NOT an impartial witness – it was he who reported Michael to the AEG bosses and threatened to quit the show if he didn’t attend the rehearsals. It was he who suggested playing a tough love and now-or-never card on Michael. It was he who by the accounts of eye-witnesses was rude and over demanding towards Michael, and did not allow him even take away his ear piece though now he hypocritically says that he considered Michael his “boss”.
I’ve heard Ortega speak to Michael in This Is It film and his tone was far from that of an employee speaking to his boss. It looked like it was exactly the opposite.
No one recalls now that Ortega didn’t give a damn that the shows were scheduled too close to each other for Michael and he had no rest between the concerts. No one remembers that Ortega would do his director’s job and have a rest after that, while for Michael the tour was only starting, however Ortega never spared him and complained that he was missing too many rehearsals. And in Travis Payne’s opinion, for example, MJ missed no more than 4 or 5 rehearsals in the whole period of it.
On June 19th Ortega realized they had gone too far in pressurizing Michael, grew frightened with what he did and backpedaled a bit with all those panicky emails. The emails were regarded by Randy Phillips as an unforgivable weakness and he brushed them aside as Kenny’s “hysteria”, saying that “this guy is beginning to worry me”.
This was the drama and tragedy of those days we witnessed and cried over when he was testifying for the first time sometime in May. However now all the tears and chill of those tragic days are forgotten and are happily replaced by a lot of pleasantries instead.
I bet that now Ortega is sun-tanned, well-rested and a nice sight to behold. Now he is reflecting at his leisure that Michael “didn’t show at all” in June, he doesn’t remember AEG to put any pressure on MJ and Murray, and he can’t even remember MJ deteriorating in front of his eyes.
Michael Jackson is no longer the top artist for him but is “pretty close to it” but he is not sure that he would have commanded the world like he did before.
In addition to all that now he says that no one was responsible for Michael’s health but Michael himself! For some reason this quickly reminded me of prisoners in concentration camps and some overseers there making cynical observations that the health of their inmates is fully in their hands too.
Good-bye, Mr. Ortega – all I can say as a farewell to you is that it is extremely unfortunate that your nice ways managed to fool the jury. With pleasant guys like you the world can crash into abyss and everyone will be still applauding. What can await us in the future if we allow ourselves to be so easily deceived?
Thursday August 8, DAY 65
Hello from the courthouse in downtown LA. Day 65 of Jackson family vs AEG trial, Week 15, is underway. Session now in lunch break.
Katherine Jackson is in court wearing an ankle length black dress with a black and white polka dot jacket.
Jury entered the courtroom 10:10 am PT. Judge Yvette Palazuelos advised jurors she came up with new time estimate for the trial.
Judge: My estimate has now changed. The case will probably be submitted to you at the end of September.
It is what it is, judge said. She told jurors before they would get the case at the end of August.
Outside the presence of the jury, AEG attorney told judge he will be done 1st week of Sept or so. Panish said he has 4 rebuttal witnesses.
Judge said they are bringing Kenny Ortega back on the stand out of order to finish his testimony.
Ortega is under cross examination by AEG’s attorney Marvin Putnam. Ortega had professional engagement overseas, not available until today.
Putnam showed Ortega a “Certificate of Employment — Loan-Out,” which Ortega said it’s certificate that he works for The K.O. Company, Inc.
AEG Live had an agreement with K.O. Company for the services of Ortega.
P: What were you employee of?
O: K.O. Company
Putnam: Did you understand you were an employee of AEG Live?
Ortega: No
I was only contracted, and we were only focused, on the London tour at this time, Ortega explained.
Ortega’s contract was executed on April 26, 2009. “I believe I was paid in advance of signing,” Ortega said.
In his deposition, Ortega was shown documents to refresh his recollection. Putnam showed him the same documents.
Ortega looked at the document and said he was paid on May 11, 2009, which is after he signed his contract.
Ortega: That’s what appears in this document.
Putnam: You were paid after the contract was executed, right?
Ortega said he has put himself in the position of working prior to signing a contract. “It’s what I call working in good faith.”
Putnam: If you don’t reach an agreement, you could work and not get paid?
Ortega: Yes
It’s sort of common in the industry, Ortega said.
I can recall specifically, but I’m sure in my 40-something years in this business that has occurred, Ortega testified.
In Ortega’s contract, there is a provision for bonus in case “This Is It” tour went around the world.
Putnam: If tour was successful, you already have in your agreement what you’d be paid in bonus, correct?
The shows were not booked or guaranteed, Ortega said. “That’s what I think Michael hoped to do, but wasn’t booked.”
Ortega’s contract does not have a signature line for Michael Jackson.
Putnam read Murray’s contract were it says the contract is not valid unless MJ consented to it and asked if Ortega has that in his contract.
Ortega: That’s what I understand it’s in my contract
Ortega went thru all the pages of his contract and said: “I do not see that anywhere.”
Putnam: Did you consider it a tour?
Ortega: We called it tour, term used in the industry, but we weren’t really touring, it was 1 venue.
People were calling it a tour but it was more like an event, Ortega explained.
He told me he only wanted me, Ortega said about Michael Jackson’s wished that he be the director.
Putnam: Is it fair to say you were the “TII” director because of MJ?
Ortega: Yes.
Ortega said he doesn’t remember who he said reached out to him first regarding the tour in his deposition.
Putnam showed Ortega’s deposition transcript. “In deposition, I remember it to be Dr. Tohme,” Ortega said.
In a deposition related to Lloyds of London litigation, Ortega also said Dr. Tohme first reached out to him regarding TII.
In Dr. Murray’s criminal trial, Ortega said it was Paul Gongaware.
Putnam: Do you remember as you sit here today who first contacted you?
Ortega: I’m not really certain.
Ortega said he didn’t really know who Dr. Tohme was, have never met the guy at that point. Tohme said he called on behalf of MJ.
Ortega testified he never really fully understand Dr. Tohme’s role related to MJ. He thought was a friend.
Regardless of who contacted him first, Ortega said he was hired because Michael Jackson wanted him.
Ortega said AEG Live and MJ were co-producers of the show.
Ortega said he reported to Michael Jackson for the creative side of the tour and regarding budget/financial matters he reported to Gongaware
Ortega explained he dealt with Gongaware regarding technical things, like moving dates to new rehearsal venue, delivery of stage parts, etc.
Ortega would discuss with Michael about hiring someone and the director would go to Gongaware to get the contract drawn and the person hired
Ortega did not discuss with Gongaware anything related to creative matters.
Because the creative person was Michael, and myself, Ortega explained.
We talked about these things together and I’d go with Michael’s blessing to Paul to begin the process, Ortega explained.
Putnam: Did he ever tell you you couldn’t get something?
Ortega: No.
I’d go and say ‘this is what we’d like,’ Ortega said.
He would just make it happen, Ortega said. He could not recall Gongaware denying anything.
Final say would be Michael, Ortega said. “Michael had final creative say.”
Putnam: Why?
Ortega: Because he was brilliant and he knew what he was doing.
At the end of the day, creatively, we trusted Michael knew what we needed, Ortega said.
Ortega said February, March and April MJ was very involved in the creation of the show, would show up a lot.
A lot meaning 3-4 times a week, Ortega clarified. He said things changed as they were moving to the Forum, which was end of May.
Putnam: Who did you consider your boss?
Ortega: Michael.
Ortega: I thought of MJ as my partner, I didn’t think of him as my boss. But MJ always had the final creative say in all the years we worked
Putnam: Did you feel AEG Live supported MJ?
Ortega: Yes
Putnam: Did you ever see AEG pressure Michael in any way?
Ortega: No
Ortega: Everything we brought to AEG, in terms of enormous creative needs, that AEG was very supportive in doing all they could.
Ortega said he would ask Gongaware for more and more things to create the show. Gongaware never denied anything.
He said there were professional discussions like ‘is this something you really feel it’s going to benefit,’ ‘do you really need this.’
Ortega: I think we were getting in a place were we had a ceiling, because we were already with a fat budget.
Ortega: But at the end, I believe they thought Michael had what he wanted.
Ortega said he learned from Randy Phillips that Dr. Murray was responsible to get MJ to rehearsals on June 15, 2009.
He explained he didn’t think Phillips was involved as much in MJ’s scheduling, but was overseeing it.
Ortega said he never spoke with Timm Wooley about scheduling.
I looked at Mr. Phillips as the promoter, Michael’s promoter and producing partner, Ortega testified.
Ortega: In this stage of the game, Mr. Phillips took on overseeing position to make sure the schedule was responsible for Michael.
Ortega: I think they were trying to create a schedule to factor in all of Michael’s needs (like family) and still could come to rehearsal.
Putnam asked about June 19, 2009. “I’ll always remember June 19,” Ortega said.
Putnam asked if Ortega testified before he thought MJ had a really bad case of flu.
I supposed I might have suggested it could look that way, Ortega said. “It would’ve been a really, really bad flu.”
Putnam asked if throughout the night on June 19th, if MJ got better. Ortega said yes.
P: Calm?
O: Yes
P: More engaged?
O: Yes
P: Warmed up?
O: A bit
Putnam: He was coherent?
Ortega: Yes
I felt somewhat calm when we left, Ortega said. But he said he was still concerned, thus the email he sent to AEG high ups.
Ortega: It didn’t appear to me it was drugs, it appeared to me it was something else, emotional.
Putnam: It never crossed your mind it could be drug related?
Ortega: No, I was thinking it was something else.
Putnam: You have never seen Mr. Jackson like that before?
Ortega: No.
Ortega sent an email after seeing MJ that way because he thought Phillips and Gongaware should know about it.
There was a meeting scheduled next day to address MJ’s problems on June 19.
Ortega said he thought it was a responsible way to deal with it, and pretty immediate after the fact.
At the meeting, Dr. Murray told Ortega to stay out of it and to leave MJ’s health for him to take care.
Dr. Murray told Ortega to quit being an amateur doctor and that MJ was physically fit to show, the director recalled.
Putnam: MJ assured you that he was fine?
Ortega: I didn’t feel assured
Ortega: He said don’t leave me, I’m gonna take the reins, you’ll see I’m going to change this. He seemed absolutely committed at that point.
Ortega: Murray started up saying I had no right to not allow Michael to rehearse that night and that I had no right to send him home.
Ortega testified he said: ‘Wait a minute, that’s not at all what happened.’ The director recalled Dr. Murray said MJ told him that.
Ortega: I looked at Michael and asked him to tell what had happened, that I didn’t forbid Michael of anything.
Ortega said, at one point, MJ told him he was going home. “I said yes, go home, tuck your children in, feel better,” Ortega described.
Ortega: I did think it was right he didn’t rehearse that night, I did think it was the right thing he went home.
Ortega said Dr. Murray told him to be the director and to quit his concerns with Michael Jackson’s health because it was not his job.
Ortega: I’d like to think that Michael would not set me up that way, I’d like to think Dr. Murray misunderstood Michael.
Ortega said Michael explained in the meeting that what Dr. Murray said was not what had occurred.
Putnam: Did you talk about drugs in that meeting?
Ortega: No
Putnam: Did he (Murray) offer any explanation of what happened to MJ the night before?
Ortega: I don’t believe so.
Putnam: Do you think MJ was being responsible with his own health?
Adults are responsible for their own health, Ortega opined.
Ortega: I worked with 10,000 people in the Olympics, how can I be responsible for everybody’s health?
Ortega: I didn’t think he was being very responsible, but it was his responsibility, in my opinion.
Jurors were writing viguroulsy at this point. Juror number 6 looked over at Katherine Jackson.
Ortega: I wanted to take care on him, you want to take care of someone when something is not right, but you can’t be responsible.
Putnam: Were you responsible for MJ’s health?
Ortega: No.
Someone on behalf of Michael Jackson contacted Ortega to be part of the HBO special.
Ortega never asked MJ about his rehab stint or any drug use.
Putnam: Did you have any reservation to work with him after rehab?
Ortega: No
P: Why not?
Because he came out of rehab, Ortega said. “He was moving on with his life in a healthy way, hopefully.”
Putnam: Did you ever talk to him about nutrition?
Ortega: As a general idea
P: Physical therapy?
O: Yes
Ortega said he would talk to MJ, as a performing artist, and ask if he was focusing on nourishment, health, warming up, stretching, sleeping
MJ wasn’t really fond of massage, Ortega said. “Don’t forget to eat, get some rest,” Ortega would tell MJ.
The singer would smile and answer “okay” in a very loving way, Ortega recalled.
Ortega said MJ liked to be in a certain kind of place (weight) to execute his moves and to get the look he
wanted. “I might have been a little concerned (with his weight) when I brought that up, yes,” Ortega testified.
Putnam: In your opinion, was Mr. Jackson always skinny?
Ortega: In the early years I worked with him he was light, lean performer.
“He was strong,” Ortega said. But 20 years later, when Ortega worked with MJ in the “This Is It,” the
director said MJ was much different.
Ortega’s first time working with MJ was in the “Dangerous” tour. He said he may have been director of the project. It was in 1992-93.
Ortega said he usually likes to stay in tour until everything is working to everybody’s satisfaction. He said it may be 4-5 shows or 8-10
Putnam: Did you have any concerns he might have been using drugs then?
Ortega: No. At this time, MJ was living at Neverland.
Ortega said they never rehearsed at MJ’s ranch, but a stage in Los Angeles.
Ortega was called to help MJ with the HBO special.
Putnam: He seemed well to you?
Ortega: Unhappy
Putnam: Was he physical well?
Ortega: He seemed tired and unhappy, stressed.
Putnam: But at no time you thought he was using drugs?
Ortega: No.
Ortega was present at Beacon Theater when MJ collapsed. He didn’t see the artist fall, though. He said security responded quickly, everybody stayed away to give paramedics room to work. MJ was transported to the hospital. Ortega didn’t go, because he said he wasn’t invited. “Certainly concerned,” though, he explained.
HIStory tour rehearsal was done in Los Angeles, Ortega said.
Putnam: Did you have any concern with MJ’s health?
Ortega: I don’t recall having any concerns
P: How about mentally?
O: No
Putnam: Were you concerned MJ was doing drugs before “TII” in 2008?
Ortega: No, I saw him.
Ortega said he had dinner with MJ a couple of times, MJ took his children to see High School Musical, and that he looked fine.
The director described MJ very excited, even not knowing yet what “TII” was going to be, but feeling exhilarated.
Ortega said MJ was being approached by someone from American Idol, also Randy Phillips approached him, they wanted to do something with him.
I think seating in a theater for 5 years in Las Vegas wasn’t really attractive to him, Ortega explained.
Michael wanted to get out on the road, Ortega said.
Ortega: I was happy for him, because he had been through so much, I wanted him to be the King again.
Ortega: I think the arrival of his children in his life brought something he didn’t have before.
He seemed exhilarated, excited, like the Michael I always knew, Ortega described.
Ortega: He was unbelievable! His reasons for doing the tour were incredible. He was motivated.
Ortega said the meeting on June 20th was at MJ’s Carolwood home. On June 23rd, Ortega testified MJ was in great spirits, ready to work.
Putnam: Completely different?
Ortega: Completely
Ortega: He seemed healthy, ready and happy, there didn’t seem to be any left over issues from the 19th.
Ortega said MJ was always a little chill, but not like on the 19th. The director was surprised how quickly MJ got better.
Putnam asked if Ortega inquired MJ what had happened. “I didn’t pry in his personal live,” he replied
It was like metamorphosis, he said.
Putnam: How was the rehearsal?
Ortega: Great. It was one of the best rehearsals we had up until then.
Putnam: Had he taken the reins?
Ortega: Yeah
MJ was there a number of hours, Ortega said. He went through a number of songs.
Ortega: He was in charge. Not only capable to rehearsing but to talk about other aspects of production, like films, the effects, costumes.
Ortega said he just embraced it and went with it. “We were all delighted” Ortega recalled. “The energy in the room changed, hope returned”
Ortega: Everybody felt there was a different Michael in the room.
Ortega said MJ was almost as good on the 24th as the 23rd. He seemed a little tired from the day before but talked about things for the show
MJ also rehearsed and performed. Ortega said he was feeling they were back on track, believing they were in a new chapter.
Maybe it was a lot of rest, Ortega opined. “He did seem rested, stronger”
Ortega felt less excited, deeply grateful about MJ’s come back.
Putnam: Did you have concern on the 23rd or 24th he was taking drugs?
Ortega: No.
Ortega said said excitement was pretty unanimous among all the people working on “This Is It.”
In re-direct, Panish asked: Prior to June 23rd, you thought Michael got real organic sleep?
Ortega: Yes.
Panish: And before that you thought he was not having any sleep?
Ortega: Yes.
Panish: The symptoms he had, did it seem like someone who wasn’t sleeping?
Ortega: I think that might have been a factor there.
Panish asked Ortega to assume MJ was getting Propofol for 60 days then didn’t have Propofol the last few days before his death.
Ortega: I assumed sleep had to be a part of it, he looked rested.
Panish asked is Ortega saw MJ several times appearing under some kind of drugs during TII.
Ortega: It seemed like it was doctor related, so it wasn’t like taking drugs but just being under the influence.
Panish: In all your years in the industry, have you ever heard a producer involved in hiring a doctor for an artist?
Ortega: I haven’t.
Ortega said he thinks it’s unusual for producers to engage attorneys to hire a doctor for an artist.
Ortega clarifies that the only artist, “the” artist, was Michael Jackson.
Panish asked if MJ could’ve been fired by AEG. “No, he was a partner,” Ortega responded. He said Michael told him that.
Panish: The producer could fire you if they wanted, right?
Ortega: I think Michael would not be happy with that.
I assume they could give a good try, Ortega responded. “I assume they could do that but I doubt it would last more than 24 hours.”
I don’t think producers can fire Tom Cruise, Ortega opined. Panish said movies are different from singers.
I don’t think producers can fire Cher, Ortega said.
Panish: Were you ever involved in a show where promoter was buying CPR machine?
Ortega: Not that I know of.
Panish: Were you ever involved in a show where promoter was buying saline, catheter, needles for a doctor?
Ortega: No.
Panish: Have you seen a CEO for promoter/producer involved in artist rehearse attendance/schedule?
Ortega: CEO no, producers/promoters yes.
Panish: Have you ever seen a situation where a CEO for promoter/producer set rehearse schedule with artist’s doctor?
Ortega: No
Panish: Did you think you were not being demanding enough of MJ’s attendance and schedule?
Ortega: No
Email from Woolley to Bob Taylor saying Randy Phillips and Dr. Murray were responsible for MJ rehearsal and attendance schedule.
I recalled that Dr. Murray was going to be responsible for the schedule, Ortega said.
Earlier in the trial, Ortega testified rehearsal schedule and attendance was up to Dr. Murray and Randy Phillips.
Ortega said, at one point, there was a standstill regarding his contract.
Email from Gongaware to Ortega on March 25, 2009: I’m afraid we may not be able to meet your financial requirements for a deal.
Panish: Are you aware of any artist in the world with the drawing power of Michael Jackson?
Ortega: I’d think if done right, that Michael would be the highest draw on the planet.
Panish: You don’t think Celine Dion would be bigger?
Ortega: I think the Stones come close, McCartney come close. But if MJ was not the number one, he was very close.
He sold 50 shows, Ortega said. “Pretty awesome, historical.”
Ortega said he disagrees with anyone who says there’s no way MJ could’ve done 50 shows.
Panish: Did you ever have assistant producer say she was afraid an artist would die in weeks of a show and they actually did die?
Ortega: No.
Yes, he did change over time, Ortega said about Michael Jackson.
Panish: Was MJ perfectionist?
Ortega: That would be something that people would have called him.
Ortega: Most of us have never seen anyone work as hard to accomplish something as MJ.
Ortega said he didn’t see MJ at practice for a long period of time in June.
Panish: In June, he didn’t show at all?
Ortega: That’s correct
It was fairly obvious he was not moving forward in the rehearsals with this sort of tempo, Ortega testified.
Panish: Did you have concerns about his physical condition on June 14?
Ortega: I’d say yes.
Panish: Sir, did you tell anyone that MJ should’ve been taken to the hospital?
Ortega: I might have.
Panish: Did you say that after MJ died?
Ortega: No, I think I’d have said it sooner than that.
Panish: You didn’t think Dr Murray was doing a good job?
Ortega: No
Ortega suggested another physician, not Murray, come to check MJ out.
Panish: Did you think MJ was irresponsible?
Ortega: It seemed to me that he was in trouble.
Ortega: MJ was very cool, bold, strong in his ideas and what he wanted all through the beginning of the process.
Eventually he started to decline and disappear, Ortega recalled.
Panish: I want you to assume that AEG Live hired Dr. Murray. Would you expect them to hire a fit and competent doctor?
Ortega: Yes.
Panish: You expect AEG to check them out, not being under conflict of interest situation?
Ortega: Yes.
Panish asked if Ortega was doing his job when he sent email with concerns. “More than just doing my job, looking out for my friend” he said.
Ortega said Dr. Murray did not have the same mindset as him in the June 20th meeting.
Phillips didn’t do anything to stop Dr. Murray’s admonishment of Ortega in the meeting, Panish said. Ortega agreed.
Panish: Did you ever learn that Phillips was grabbing Dr. Murray’s arm?
Ortega: I never heard that.
Panish asked if Ortega knew how much pressure AEG was putting MJ and Dr. Murray on.
He said no.
Panish: Did you heard Murray walked out and said he couldn’t take this s**t anymore?
Ortega: No, I never heard that.
Ortega then opined: If Michael ever heard you talk like that it would not be appropriate. Isn’t that right Mrs. Jackson?
Katherine Jackson nodded in the audience in agreement. “In respect of why we are all here for, that’s not nice,” Ortega said on the stand.
Ortega said he never told Faye MJ had to face his fears; used the word tough love, may have said the show could be cancelled if not ready.
Ortega: Michael had not performed in 10 years. Whether he’d command the world like he had before remained to be seen.
However, the sell out at the O2 for 50 shows showed he still had drawing power, Ortega opined.
Putnam did re-cross.
Putnam: Did you see Michael deteriorate over 8 weeks?
Ortega: I would’ve not used the word deteriorate to describe what I saw.
The week of June 15th is when Ortega grew concerned with Michael Jackson.
Ortega said nobody came up to him on the 23rd or 24th expressing concern about MJ. They did on the 19th but not after MJ came back on 23rd.
Putnam: Would it be surprising to you that the Rolling Stones have a doctor on tour with them right now?
Ortega: No.
Putnam: You just don’t know some of those things, right?
Ortega: Yes.
Putnam: Have you ever worked on a tour where an artist was $400 million in debt?
Ortega: Not to my knowledge.
Putnam: Have you ever worked on a tour where the artist could not afford his daily expenses?
Ortega: I don’t believe so.
Putnam: Have you ever worked on a tour where the promoter/producer was advancing all daily expenses?
Ortega: It’s possible, I don’t know.
Putnam: Have you ever worked on a tour where artist was unable to pay his personal doctor?
Ortega: I don’t think so, assumption on my part.
Putnam: Who introduced you to Dr. Murray?
Ortega: Michael
P: Did AEG introduce you to him?
O: No
P: What did MJ say?
O: This is my doctor.
Putnam asked if AEG checked if the doctor was licensed and if he had been disciplined, if it was responsible thing to do. Ortega said yes.
Putnam: If they weren’t hiring Dr. Murray, would that responsibility be above and beyond anything they needed to do, in your mind?
Ortega: I think that would’ve been responsible.
Putnam: Did Mr. Phillips ever tell you he wanted MJ to come on tour?
Ortega: No
In re-re-direct Panish: Would it be responsible to place a doctor in a conflict of interest had they hired him?
Ortega: In my opinion, no
Putnam in re-re-cross asked if it’s common practice to check a doctor’s credit report prior to hiring him.
I wouldn’t think it would be something that would be the norm, Ortega responded.
Putnam: Do you think it’s responsible for a studio to hire Kenny Ortega if he were in debt?
Ortega: I’ve been there and they hired me.
Putnam asked if being in debt diminishes your capability. “I don’t think so,” Ortega responded.
Ortega: Being in debt doesn’t change your talent, your gift, your ability.
Panish in re-re-re-direct: Do you have access to a prescription pad?
Ortega: No
Putnam and Panish took turns in asking out-of-the-ordinary questions regarding responsibility to Ortega.
Jurors were laughing out loud with the exchange between the attorneys. The director kept his composure and responded to all questions.
Ortega was dismissed, subject to recall in AEG’s case in chief.
When the director got up, all jurors clapped for him. He thanked the jurors, kissed Mrs. Jackson, shook hands with Shawn Trell and left.
Judge adjourned session a little early. Jurors ordered back 9:30 am tomorrow. Kathy Jorrie is back on the stand.
AEG plans to play Randy Jackson’s deposition and Dr. David Adams from Las Vegas in the afternoon. We hope to see you tomorrow! Good night!
Friday August 9, 2013 DAY 66
Kathy Jorrie’s lies continue.
Now she says that Panish never showed her any document proving that Tohme had no right to represent the Michael Jackson company. But we have an email from Dennis Hawk to her and Shawn Trell dated January 14, 2009 (or two weeks before signing a contract with MJ) saying that Michael is the sole officer of his company and is the only one who can sign for it (so Tohme can’t, especially after MJ’s death when all representation of him ceased).
![MJ is the sole officer of the MJ company]()
Kathy Jorrie also explains that she was in no hurry to draft a contract with Murray as she thought that he was working for Michael then and it was his usual job which he had been doing for MJ for 3 years by then.
Over here I have two questions:
1) if she thought that before the AEG contract Murray was working for Michael, for whom was he supposed to work after it? AEG as Tohme is telling us?
2) And didn’t she hear from another AEG witness LaPerruque, MJ’s head of security, that he never saw Murray in 2007 and beginning of 2008? So what three years is she talking about?
Kathy Jorrie also says that “of course” AEG was not to supervise Murray but does not explain how it was possible for AEG not to supervise Murray if he was to doas they requested and his services were to be approved by them?
And they had the right to terminate him without asking for MJ’s opinion by the way?
You can read all her further lies if you want, but I suggest you skip and go over straight to Randy Jackson’s deposition. You can fully enjoy it without my comment as I will refrain from it for the moment. All I can say is that it is the exact opposite to that of LaPerruque and his approach to Michael Jackson:
Friday August 9, DAY 66
Hello from the courthouse in downtown LA. Day 66 of Jackson family vs AEG trial is underway. We’re currently on lunch break.
Kathy Jorrie is back on the stand. Jessica Stebbins Bina resumed re-direct examination.
Katherine Jackson is not present in court today.
Bina showed Jorrie MJ’s contract. Paragraph 13: Artistco hereby represents/warrants that Artist does not posses any known health conditionin, juries or ailments that would reasonably be expected to interfers with Artist’s first class performance.
injuries or ailments that would reasonably be expected to interfers with Artist’s first class performance.
Bina: Who signed this?
Jorrie: Michael Jackson.
Bina: So MJ represented that he did not have any health condition that would interfere with his performance?
J: None whatsoever
Bina: Drug problems?
Jorrie: I never had any information that MJ was not in good health.
Bina asked if Jorrie believed Tohme was an officer of MJ company. She said yes
Bina: Insomnia or sleep problems?
Jorrie: Not in the least.
Bina: Did Mr. Panish show any documents that he was not an officer?
Jorrie: He did not.
Regarding the email Dennis Hawk, MJ’s attorney, sent Jorrie on January 14, 2009, she said they wanted to replace the name of MJ’s company.
It’s usually the type of representation she gets
Bina: Before Jun 28 you had been told Tohme was an officer of the MJ’s company?
Jorrie: Yes
Bina asked if Jorrie was told on June 28, 2009 that Dr. Tohme was an officer of MJ’s company when he received the consent document.
Jorrie: That’s my best recollection, I was informed that he was an officer of Michael Jackson’s company.
Jorrie said Tohme himself represented to her he was an officer of MJJ’s company.
Jorrie said the meeting on June 28, 2009 was called by John Branca, co-executor of MJ’s Estate, co-executor John McClain was on the phone.
She said Frank DiLeo and various AEG reps were also present at the meeting and Tohme was there speaking about things having to do with MJ.
Dr. Tohme was there discussing MJ’s business in front of everybody, Jorrie testified. “Nobody challenged Dr. Tohme or his presence.”
Jorrie said Dr. Tohme signed this document. She said she has seen Frank DiLeo’s signature as well approving the expenses.
Bina asked if Weitzman told her Tohme had been fired but nevertheless the Estate agreed to reimburse AEG for production costs
Jorrie: I’m aware that the Estate reimbursed some costs.
Bina asked if Woolley forwarded Jorrie an email saying Dr. Murray was fully engaged in Mr. Jackson’s treatment in May. She said no.
B: Did Murray tell you that?
J: He did
Bina: Did it surprise you Dr. Murray was fully engaged and treating MJ in May 2009?
Jorrie: No.
Bina: Why not?
Jorrie: Because I understood from Murray that he was MJ’s personal physician for 3 yrs
Bina asked if Jorrie told Dr. Murray to stop treating MJ until they had an agreement. She said no.
Jorrie: The reason is that Dr. Murray was Mr. Jackson’s physician and it would not be my place to tell him not to provide services.
Jorrie said MJ had been his patient for many years.
Bina: Did Dr. Murray need an agreement with AEG Live to treat patients?
Jorrie: No, he did not need an agreement from AEG Live to perform services to his patients, including Michael Jackson.
Jorrie read graph 9 of the contract, “Artist Consent.” It says that without the express written consent of MJ the contract was not valid.
Jorrie: This is an independent contract agreement. Dr. Murray was MJ’s physicians, retained to and in the expense of the artist.
Bina: You didn’t put any provision for Dr. Murray to be supervised by AEG Live?
Jorrie: Of course not.
Bina: Are there any words in agreement that says Murray can only use medical equip approved, bought by AEG?
Jorrie: There’s no such wording
Jorrie said there was also no word about Dr. Murray having to use only equipment provided by AEG to treat Michael Jackson.
Bina: Did Dr. Murray ever ask you for any equipment?
Jorrie: No
Bina asked about end date of contract. Original date was Sept. 2009, but Dr. Murray asked it to be changed to March 2010, Jorrie said.
Bina asked Jorrie why she didn’t check with MJ or his reps about changing the end date of the contract.
Jorrie explained they were negotiating a contract to a place where Dr. Murray was happy with the agreement.
She said it would then be presented to MJ and his representatives for approval.
Bina: Did you ever send the signed agreement to MJ?
Jorrie: No, I didn’t.
B: Why not?
J: Michael Jackson passed away.
Jorrie used as template an independent contract agreement used in the King Tut exhibition.
It was between an individual and affiliate of AEG. There is no mention of artist consent in that contract, it was not a service to an artist
Jorrie said she took out the conflict provisions because they dealt with conflict of interest for the individual working for a competitor.
She said that provision was no applicable to Murray. Jorrie also took out provision “Intellectual Property” since it was not applicable also
Bina asked if Jorrie’s understanding was that Dr. Murray was making one million dollars a month.
She said he understood his medical practice brought in a million dollars, from which he had to pay his expenses, nurses, medical equipments.
Jorrie said from the conversation she had with Dr. Murray she did not understand he was going to close his medical practices to go on tour.
He told me he was leaving the practices to go on tour with MJ, Jorrie explained. Dr. Murray never told her he was closing his practices.
Jorrie found that there were two places of businesses associated with Dr. Murray and his medical licenses.
Jorrie: I found Dr. Murray was licensed to practice medicine in 4 states, no disciplinary action against him in any state.
The clinics she found were in Nevada and Texas, Jorrie said. “The 2 places of businesses that I assumed were clinics.”
Jorrie: It was just spot check, I checked his medical licenses, there were no disciplinary actions, company was legit, everything matched.
I had no reason to doubt the information given to me was incorrect, Jorrie said. “There were no red flags.”
Jorrie: I didn’t think it was my place to check Michael Jackson’s physician, who he had for many years.
Jorrie said GCA Holdings was a legitimate company, its license had not be suspended.
Panish then did re-cross of Jorrie.
Panish: Did you bill AEG for the research you did?
Jorrie: It was 10 minutes of research and it was part of preparation of Murray’s contract
Jorrie explained she would not have entered into the invoice a spot check of Dr. Murray’s licenses/company.
Panish: Does your time entry has anything about check you did on Murray? Jorrie said she needs to look at the documents to refresh memory.
Jorrie said a red flag is when things come up that alerts her to evaluate further.
Panish: There were no red flags raised in the 10-minute search you did on Dr. Murray, correct?
Jorrie: That’s correct.
Jorrie said she was checking to make sure the information Dr. Murray gave her were correct.
Panish: Did you ever do a google search for Michael Jackson Company?
Jorrie: No.
Jorrie said she went on to the Delaware Secretary of the State website to check Michael Jackson’s company.
Panish: MJ’s company was a sole member LLC, wasn’t it?
Jorrie: That I don’t recall when I looked at it.
Jorrie said she believes she has a copy of the Delaware Secretary of the State of when she checked MJ’s company.
Panish: Did you bill your client for that work?
Jorrie: I don’t recall, I have to look at the time and see whether or not I billed them.
Jorrie said she never received any document from Shawn Trell stating anyone else as officer of Michael Jackson’s company.
Panish: Did you ever contact Delaware Secretary of State to see if Dr. Tohme was an officer of MJ LLC?
Jorrie: No.
Jorrie did not contract John Branca, co-executor to be, to check if Dr. Tohme was an officer of MJ’s LLC.
Jorrie said Mr. Tohme did not sign the consent document in her presence. She gave him the document for review.
Panish: Were you aware Dr. Tohme was supposed to get paid $200,000 for signing this document?
Jorrie: I wasn’t aware, sir.
Panish: Were you aware the budget called to pay Dr. Murray $450,000?
Jorrie: I was not aware, sir.
She testified she never asked Branca if Tohme was officer of MJ’s company.
Jorrie said the budget had to be approved prior to any payment.
Jorrie said she saw Dr. Murray was licensed for cardiovascular something. He was also licensed in internal medicine.
Panish asked if there’s such a things as cardiovascular license. “I told you what I remember seeing,” Jorrie explained.
Panish: Did you see his internal medicine license had lapsed in 2008?
Jorrie: No, I don’t remember seeing it.
Panish: Is your testimony that Dr. Murray was licensed in internal medicine and cardiovascular?
Jorrie: It’s my testimony under oath that’s what I saw 4 years ago, yes.
Jorrie said she told Dr. Murray he would get paid once the contract was fully executed.
Jorrie sent all drafts of the contract to Trell and AEG, but never sent them to Michael Jackson or his representatives.
This was the 1st time Jorrie negotiated a contract for an artist’s physician. She never researched about third party contract for artist/doc
Jorrie said she did not go out of her way to check Dr. Murray’s credit report, debts, outstanding child support claims.
Panish asked if Jorrie was copied on any of the chain email “Trouble at the Front.” She said she was not.
Jorrie said the only medical check she’s aware of that Michael Jackson underwent was for the insurance company.
Jorrie said Howard Weitzman may have told her about the dispute in termination of Dr. Tohme.
In re-re-direct, Bina asked: Why didn’t you ask John Branca if Dr. Tohme was officer of the company?
Jorrie said Branca was a co-executor to be and she believed he would not know the answer. He had been MJ’s attorney for a week.
Jorrie thought Dr. Tohme would be the most appropriate to ask whether he was an officer of MJ’s company or not.
Bina: Did you think there was conflict of interest in the contract? “I believe that there wasn’t contractual conflict of interest” Jorrie said
Jorrie explained MJ and Dr. Murray’s interests were aligned, to treat him and keep him healthy while performing at the O2 arena.
In re-re-cross, Panish asked if Jorrie has expertise in medical conflict of interest. She said she’s not an expert in medical conflict.
Jorrie said she read that Branca represented MJ about 10 years before.
Panish: AEG didn’t have to have a contract with Dr. Murray, right?
Jorrie: It was an accommodation, sir.
Panish asked if there was anything preventing AEG from preparing the contract with Dr. Murray and giving it to MJ. She said no.
In re-re-re-direct, Bina asked if MJ specifically asked AEG to draft the contract for Dr. Murray and advance funds necessary?
Jorrie: Yes
in re-re-re-cross, Panish rebutted: And AEG could’ve refused it, right?
Jorrie: Yes
Jorrie was then excused. Judge broke session for lunch. We are waiting for trial to resume, since judge is dealing with other matters.
AEG changed witnesses. They will play video deposition of Dr. Gordon Sasaki, a plastic surgeon of Pasadena, CA.
The other witness scheduled is Randy Jackson, also via video deposition.
AEG claims Randy doesn’t want to come testify in person; Jacksons say AEG doesn’t want him to come in person. What do you think is true?
We’ll bring you complete coverage of this afternoon’s session as soon as we are able to tweet. Remember, per judge, no live tweets.
Everyone still in the hallway waiting. Fans, reporters and many lawyers on stand by.
Back in session…
Jessica Stebbins Bina said AEG is calling Randy Jackson via video deposition.
Q- Question (by an attorney)
A- Answer (by Randy Jackson)
First deposition was on Nov 6, 2012.
Q: Do you know Grace Rwamba?
A:Yes, and fired her too.
Q: Why?
A: Because he asked me to.
Q: Your brother Michael did?
A: Yes
Randy said he and Michael were pretty close, since they were close in age.
The attorneys stipulated the firing occurred in 2004/2005.
Randy said he doesn’t remember when it was the last time he spoke with MJ. He said MJ was traveling.
Q: Did you call him in 2009?
A: I don’t remember
Q: Did you see him in 2009?
A: I don’t remember
Randy said Frank DiLeo was MJ’s manager. “From what I understand until my brother passed,” he explained.
There was a time he was the manager, then not manager, then manager again, Randy said.
Q: Your brother didn’t want to see you and you went to see him?
A: Yes
Q: Couple occasions?
A: Yes, 3 or 4 times
I wanted to make sure he was ok, Randy testified.
MJ’s brother said one intervention was in Vegas, then in NY then LA. Randy remembered 3 times and intervention being attempted.
Because I had received call that he had been abusing prescription drugs, Randy said. Grace called him, he’s sure if she called anyone else
Randy said it was around the time of the trial, doesn’t know if before or after, not sure.
MJ was staying in Vegas. Randy said he went there with Jackie, Rebbie, maybe Janet, maybe Marlon.
Randy said he spoken with Grace, the other siblings spoke with her too. “We may have had a conference call.”
Q: Have you ever believed MJ was abusing prescription drugs before?
A: Yes.
Grace called Randy before about MJ using prescription drugs. He said she called him two or 3 times before.
Randy confronted MJ every time Grace called him.
Randy said security told him MJ didn’t want to see him. Just drive in and walked in the house. The gate was open, I just drove in walked in.
Q: Did you see MJ?
A: Yes. I told him him I was taking him to rehab,” Randy said. “He said he was not going. I said you are, he said I’m not
MJ didn’t go to rehab. Randy said the other siblings told MJ the same thing, to go to rehab.
Q: Did he admit having a problem?
A: No
Q: Did he deny he had a problem with prescription drugs at that time?
A: No
Q: Did he say whether or not he had a problem with prescription drugs at that time?
A: No. No he didn’t say it
They were with MJ for 2 hours
Randy said MJ told him ‘Don’t worry, I’m okay. I’m not gonna go.’
Q: Did he seem ok?
A: At the time yes
Q: Did you leave thinking he had a problem?
A: Yes
Q: When was next discussion?
A: That may have been the last time, maybe. There were prior times.
It was just around the Santa Maria trial, Randy said. “It was after, I think.”
Q: Up until the time of his passing you never discussed it with him again?
A: No
Q: Why not?
A: I hadn’t gotten call from Grace or anyone
Randy said Leonard Rowe told him MJ may have prob w/ prescription drug. He guessed it was around time shows in London were being prepared
Randy: No, let me correct that. Initially we were playing on our tour, the brothers tour. There was concern then.
Q: Did you ever discuss that with your parents?
A: Yes
Q Their reaction?
A: Displeased
Q: With?
A: Him not getting the help that he needed.
Randy said he doesn’t know if the parents talked to MJ. Randy and Janet had a doctor in the mix for the Vegas intervention.
He was an experienced interventionist, Randy testified.
Q: How did you know that?
A: He told me
Q: Had you met him before?
A: No. Internet, maybe
Q: Was this Mr. Webb?
A: No. I don’t recall
Q: Besides siblings and the doctor was there somebody else who went?
A: I don’t recall who the 2nd guy was. I didn’t arrange it, Janet knew
They talked to MJ while there, Randy said. He doesn’t rememeber specifically what was said, but that the family loved him, wanted to help.
Randy said he met the interventionist doctor at Madeo for lunch, probably met doctor one time prior as well.
He said he wanted to know just what they do and what is the procedure here, what they suggest.
Randy discussed MJ’s stint in rehab before with the singer. Randy said he thinks it was one time that MJ was in rehab.
Randy said he told the doctor there had been prior attempts to get MJ help and they weren’t successful, needed professional help.
Randy discussed with the doctors the attempted interventions. Randy did not speak with the doctors again after that.
Besides Michael, just security was present.
Q: You mentioned another one in NY?
A: Yes
Randy believes the NY attempt happened prior to the Vegas time. He said he was worried about MJ, about “prescription,” “prescription abuse.”
Grace had called Randy each time. Janet, Rebbie and Tito were with Randy in NY. It happened in early to mid-2000.
Grace called him, he called the family, other family members, Rebbie, Tito, Janet, Randy said.
You need to get down here, Randy said Grace told him. She didn’t need to say anything else. “Because, my brother,” Randy explained.
Randy went with family only to the NY intervention.
Q: Did he agreed to see you?
A: I guess, I just walked in.
He wouldn’t go Randy said about his attempt to take MJ to rehab.
Q: Did you tell him to go?
A: Yes
Q: Did he tell you he wouldn’t?
A: Yes
Randy doesn’t remember the details of the conversation, whether MJ admitted or not abusing prescription drugs.
MJ didn’t go to rehab, Randy didn’t tell the parents, he said he didn’t want to stress them out.
Randy called Grace. “She told me that he cleaned up,”
Q: How?
A: Because I was there, probably.
Randy testified the brothers just talked to him. “Just tell him that his family loves him, concerned for him.”
Q: Did he clean up after LV intervention?
A: Yes
Randy: He stopped using these things, as fas as I know, he stopped using it. I learned it from Grace, pretty much Grace.
Randy doesn’t know how he cleaned up. The intervention at the Ranch occurred after NY. He got a call from Grace “You need to get down here.”
Randy told siblings, Rebbie, brothers, Janet. They had another conference call. The parents were not on the call.
Randy: I think my mom found out about the Grace.
My family went with me, he said.
Q: Did you mom go?
A: I think so. Janet, Rebbie, no Marlon, not sure LaToya, no Jermaine, Tito maybe, Jackie
Randy said he just walked in. One the brothers went over fence to open the gate
Q: Because security won’t let you in?
A: Yes. We don’t ask
MJ didn’t want to go to rehab that time either. The brothers stayed a few hours. It was just family, no doctors.
Q: Believe your brother had problem with prescription drug?
A: Yes
Q: Did MJ deny he had a prob with prescription drugs?
A: Yes
Q: He also refused to go to rehab?
A: Yes
I didn’t believe him, Randy testified.
Just leaving there all the brother talked about it, Randy said. Other family members didn’t believe him either.
My mom didn’t believe it, Randy explained. “But it’s my mom, she didn’t want to believe it.”
After the Las Vegas intervention, Randy said he watched MJ clean up. He was around, it was around Santa Maria trial.
He just did it and got ready for the trial, Randy explained. MJ never discuss any drug problem with Randy ever.
They were at the Ranch for 2/3 hours. Randy discussed with MJ the Ranch intervention after.
I told him I wanted him to go to the therapist with me, Randy described. He said this was after Santa Maria trial, which took over things
Randy said he went to visit Frank DiLeo in the hospital after he was in a coma. He knew DiLeo for 20-30 years.
Randy learned DiLeo came back as MJ’s while the O2 show was being put together.
Q: Was he a good manager?
A: Yes
Q: Did MJ talk to you about his burned scalp?
A: Yes. He said it was painful.
I went to visit him at the hospital, Randy said about MJ. He never discussed with MJ insomnia, sleeping problems.
Randy did not know about MJ taking anesthesiologists on tour.
Randy said he never saw MJ take prescription drugs or illegal drugs. He never heard of propofol or diprivan prior to MJ’s death.
Q: Did your brother ever discuss taking medication to sleep?
A: No
I never got a call about illegal drugs, Randy explained.
Q: When did you first come to believe MJ had a prob with prescription drugs?
A: I guess it was Grace.
The first time was in Los Angeles, she called me, Randy said. It was around 2000, year 2000.
She just told me she was concerned, Randy described. “Because he was using prescription medication too much.”
Q: What medicine?
A: Sedatives, whatever they call them, sedatives.
Randy didn’t talk to MJ about it at this point. He talked to Rebbie. “I was investigating about it, talking to people around him.”
Randy: Also, as I recall, I tried calling a doctor in Vegas and a doctor in Florida, but they wouldn’t talk to me about it.
Randy said he forgot the doctors’ names. He talked to doctor friends he knew about his concerns of MJ’s prescription drug abuse.
Q: Was he addicted?
A: I don’t know, I wasn’t sure, I wasn’t clear on it.
Randy: Just excessive use, maybe, I don’t know if I would call that an addict, I’m not a doctor.
Q: Did he ever tell you he had a problem with prescription drugs?
A: No.
Q: Did you ever discuss you believed your brother had a problem with prescription drugs with your mother?
A: Yes
That was after the second attempted intervention at Neverland, Randy testified, which was the same as the one his mother attended.
Randy said he had a phone call with his mother, he initiated the conversation.
I told her that we need to plan an intervention and that, her being a mother, because she was there.
Q: Did your mother ever tell you she believed your brother had problem w/ prescription drugs?
A: No, no, she didn’t tell me that believed
Randy said he and his father tried to call MJ while he lived at Carolwood home. “We were unsuccessful,” he said.
Randy: There was a drug issue. He wasn’t eating. All of these things were happening at the same time. And, you know, a lot of pressure.
Randy: Leonard Rowe was involved very much in the shows and was giving reports to me that he didn’t look too good.
Randy said they were concerned about prescription abuse around the time MJ was living at the Carolwood house.
Randy had already selected a rehab facility to take MJ. It was in the Bay area, San Francisco. The same place were interventionist worked
Randy said his brother didn’t drink. “I never seen him drink alcohol.”
Q: From 2000 until the time that your brother passed were there periods you believed he didn’t problem with prescription drugs?
A: Yes
Second part of the deposition was taped on March 26, 2013.
Randy said Michael enjoyed touring.
Q: Why do you say that?
A: Well, because we like to tour, perform.
Q: Did you ever see any signs he was on prescription meds on tour?
A: No.
Other than the times Randy described in the last deposition, she said saw signs MJ was on prescription medications at home.
Randy said this was in 2005 at the Shadow Wood home in Beverly Hills. “He was under the influence of something.”
Randy said his speech was slurred. Then Grace, his nanny, would tell me all the time, “You need to get over here. Something’s not right.”
I went over to help him out and take everything away as I could, Randy testified.
Grace called Randy again to come over. “She needed help with him. He wasn’t doing so well.”
Randy: We had discussed this before, so I kind of knew what was going on.
Q: And what did you see when you went over there?
A: He was certainly under the influence of something that was altering his normal way of functioning. I tried to get help him some help.
Randy said he tried to take everything away, from Grace too. “It was ironic because she was giving it to him but complaining about it.”
Randy said some prescription drugs were in Grace’s name. “It was upsetting to me. I think she had a hard time saying no to him.”
Q: You just looked around the house and took bottles?
A: I made her show where everything was.
Randy: Because what good would it be to help him if you’re leaving stuff there?
Randy said there wasn’t much to talk to MJ then. “Yes, I could talk to him but I’d pick my moments. I’d wait till he’d be a bit more in tune
Q: Did he tell you what he was taking specifically?
A: No
Q: Did you do anything else besides take it away?
A: I went downstairs, I think he had some friends over. And I went downstairs to eat something.
Randy: They ran downstairs and told me that he had collapsed. And I went upstairs. I picked him up, put him on the bed, it was pretty late.
Randy: And as I recall, I called my doctor who lived literally around the corner. My doctor came over and took care of him, said he’ll be ok
Randy said the doctor gave MJ something that would counter, help counter whatever it is he had done.
Just let him rest it off. Somebody should sleep next to him, make sure he doesn’t vomit or choke, anything like that, doc told Randy.
Randy instructed one os the Cascios to sleep next to MJ. He stayed overnight as well.
Next morning, Randy said MJ was sleeping pretty late. “I wanted to make sure he was ok, then I left,” he said.
Randy asked MJ next day if he remembered what happened. He said MJ replied “no, no, but I heard.”
He said he took it to help him sleep, and he said it was a mistake and that he was sorry about it, Randy testified.
I was just kind of taken aback by it, maybe, he said.
Q: Did you have concerns about MJ at that point?
A: Yes
Randy: I staged several interventions and set up, tried to get him help many times.
Q: You mentioned Grace would call but was getting him medication?
A: Yes. A few times I would meet her at the pharmacy.
Interventions:
NY
Neverland
Las Vegas
Q: Were there any other?
A: It was more than one at Neverland.
There were a few over there. I don’t know, maybe 4 or 5, Randy responded. It was around 2004, 2005. Or 2005-06.
Randy said he was spending a lot of time with him, so he kind of got close look at what was going on.
Randy wrote letters to my family about MJ’s problem and that they had to do something to help.
Q: Who did you send the letter to?
A: Everybody, copied everybody. I made sure everybody knew it.
Randy: He’s an addict, and at this point, addicts aren’t so responsible for what they do.
Randy: So this is where the family needs to step in and do something about it because their desire becomes physical.
Q: Did you send it to your mother as well?
A: Everybody got a copy of it.
He wrote the letter down on paper and had assistant copy it. He said not everybody in his family looks at email.
Q: Did you get responses?
A: I think everyone was in shock, maybe a little denial. I always got responses, my dad, Rebbie and Janet, always
Randy: No, my mon no. As a mom, I guess maybe it was hard for her, you know, for a mother to see that.
The 4-5 interventions at Neverland were between 2004-2006. “One of them included my mom,” Randy said.
Rebbie and Janet went on all of them, except one or two.
Q: Describe the 3-4 additional interventions:
A: First one at Neverland, not the one that KJ was present. Janet, myself, Rebbie. Maybe my mom was at that one. I think my mom was there.
Katherine was at one intervention only, Randy said. “That must’ve been the first one, around 2002-2003, at Neverland.
Randy said Rebbie and Janet were always supportive, always with him. “My dad also.”
Q: What happened when you arrived at Neverland?
A: I think that time he wasn’t there.
Randy didn’t speak with MJ that day. He said people would tip MJ off. “So it’s bad news. Randy’s coming to shake things up.”
After Vegas, there were no more interventions, Randy said. “I tried to get him help but I couldn’t get as many people to stage intervention”
Randy tried to jump the gate a few times. “My dad and I tried a few times to get him help.”
Shadow Wood home was 50-thousand square feet. Randy said he hated it, it was just too big.
Randy: Michael wouldn’t want to really be around his family too much, I think because he didn’t want us to see him that way, specially me
Q: Could you give a range if years that this was happening?
A: It happened over a period of time, when I was, he stopped doing it also.
Randy: When I was helping with the situation in Santa Maria I was able to make it stop. I fired Grace, stoped it from coming in.
Randy said MJ would really, relaly enjoyed being around his children. He would cook for them.
He was in a great place, Randy said. “Then Grace came back around and he started using it again. I was very pissed off about it.”
Randy said he started right before Santa Maria trial but he got MJ clean. He told Rebbie “don’t leave his side” because I didn’t trust Grace
Randy: I fired her again, I noticed when she was around there was a pattern. Whenever she’s around, he’s wasted. So I fired her again.
Q: Were all of the interventions were before the Santa Maria trial?
A: There was one after, the Vegas was after.
Randy: He was using it again because there was a… it was quite disturbing to me.
Randy: There was a People Magazine article coming out talking about his drug use. Grace told him that I was behind putting this article out.
Randy: Grace and actually Raymone Bain because I fired them both.
I fired them both that’s probably whay they said it, Randy opined. “It had nothing to do with me.”
Randy said MJ got people in his family to sign a letter that was on People Mag saying he never used drugs. “I was really disturbed by that.”
He said he wasn’t behind the article, but didn’t sign the letter. Janet, Rebbie and his dad didn’t sign it either.
The letter was MJ’s idea, Randy said.
Q: Did you mom sign it?
A: My mom, LaToya, all my brothers.
Randy: My mom, you know, she would mever want to believe it. She’s a mom, you know. I felt bad for my her.
Randy: Did she ever believe he had a problem? Yeah, but I think she was in denial, she didn’t want to believe it.
Randy: MJ didn’t want to talk to me too much. Because maybe I wasn’t afraid to say no to him.
Randy: He would get physical with me, I wouldn’t be afraid to say no. But he was 90 pounds, it wouldn’t do much.
Randy said MJ was really scared before the Santa Maria trial. And somehow Grace was able to get him something.
Randy: He didn’t want to go to court. He didn’t show up to court. And I was freaking out because it was on the news.
Randy: I went to hospital MJ said “I don’t know what you’re thinking. I’m not walking into that courtroom so don’t even think about it Randy
Randy: And I said “Okay, but you are going to court.” He goes “No, I’m not.”
Q: Was he in the hospital because he had reaction to his drug use?
Randy: No. He was in the hospital because he didn’t want to go to court.
Randy said that when Grace was around MJ, he was under the some kind of influence. “But we had him go to court and had the doctor with him”
Randy: Then I later found out she had gotten him a patch. I was livid.
Randy doesn’t know what kind of patch it was.
He said MJ had slurry speech. “He was really frightened to go to that courtroom.”
Randy: He didn’t know who to trust, because people around him were lying to him, telling him things just to secure their positions.
Those were the only two times Randy saw him under the influence. “I’d get calls from Grace all the time,” he said.
Randy said the last time Grace called was a long time ago. “I made my presence known, there wasn’t lot more. She didn’t need to call.”
Randy: He was doing good in Ireland from what I recall. 06-7, 07-08 around that time.
Q: Do you know if he slept well while on tour?
A: He slept well
Randy said MJ had no issues sleeping that he knew of.
Randy: My dad and I tried to get the house at Carolwood. They wouldn’t let me through. My brother didn’t want me to see him like that.
Q: Who did you see there?
A: Security guard.
They told Randy “he’s not here, he’s not there.” Randy questioned if he wasn’t there why they had the gate closed. “Open it up, no big deal”
After being turned down, Randy would then go home.
Q: After Carolwood, did you or father take any other action?
A: No, after that time no.
Randy talked about interventions in NY, Neverland, Las Vegas. And there was another intervention in Taiwan.
Q: Did you go to Taiwan?
A: Yes, with Rebbie and some family members
MJ was doing shows in Taiwan.
Randy said what spurred him to go to Taiwan was the fact that he needed help, he was far away, we said we need to go.
Randy: I dind’t know anything but we had heard things. That’s why we were there.
Randy: I dind’t know anything but we had heard things. That’s why we were there.
Randy said in Taiwan they visited him, gave him family love, wanted to make him feel comforted so he wouldn’t think about doing those things
Q: Did he seem he was using drugs at that time?
A: Yes, his speech was slurred, but nothing terrible.
That was probably the first one, the first intervention, Randy said.
Q: Was MJ isolating himself?
A: Yeah, he would do that.
Q: Was he doing it in the 5 years before his death? Isolated?
A: Oh, parts, parts of it.
Q: Did you speak with him regularly?
A: I don’t talk to anyone in my family regularly.
Sometimes he would isolate himself because he didn’t want people to hear his voice Randy said.
Q: Because he might be using drugs?
A: Yes
Randy: After MJ died, everyone was shocked. I was really displeased with all the stuff that was going on in court with Branca, Weitzman.
Randy: We were still trying to figure out how to grieve, and these people are in court, and will, and this nonsense.
I haven’t even buried my brother yet, Randy said.
Randy said he pushed everything to the side and was getting together this memorial for him and did it with AEG, Kenny Ortega and those guys.
Q: Did you have a positive experience with AEG?
A: Horrible! (laughs) No, I’m just joking. They were nice. They were very nice.
Randy: I practically slept there to put the show together.
Q: Do you recall telling Randy Phillips that you see that Michael was fortunate to have AEG involved in his return to the stage?
A: I don’t remember saying that, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t say it. I kind of felt that way at the time.
That was the end of Randy’s deposition. Court adjourned until Monday at 10 am PT. AEG has not announced who the next witness is.
We hope to see you then for full coverage of the trial. For the latest, watch @ABC7 and http://www.abc7.com . Have a great weekend!
Filed under:
AEG THE HORRIBLE,
Jacksons vs. AEG Tagged:
AEG,
Kathy Jorrie,
Kenny Ortega,
LaPerruque,
Michael Jackson,
Randy Jackson ![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
This guy slapped Michael and is now explaining it by the need to go a press-conference. His earlier version was that Michael was “drunk”, however when questioned under oath he says that it was an “exaggeration”.
Everything was there – AEG’s old lies about Michael being ‘drunk and despondent, AEG exec saying that it is ‘extortion’, “Murray working for Michael and not AEG”, etc. – everything except the shock of the slap Phillips gave to Michael Jackson. There was simply nothing about it, as if it never happened and was never discussed at the trial.
The tears of humiliation are the hardest to swallow.
![MJ at the age of two [ABC7 Court News pictures]](http://vindicatemj.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/mj-at-the-age-of-2.jpg?w=600)
![The boys rehearsed at the house [ABC7 pictures]](http://vindicatemj.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/the-boys-rehearsed-at-the-house.jpg?w=391&h=448)
![They wore home-made suits [ABC7 pictures]](http://vindicatemj.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/homemade-suits.jpg?w=407&h=384)
![To my mother [ABC7]](http://vindicatemj.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/to-my-mother.jpg?w=600&h=364)
![A big gathering in May 2009. The 60th anniversary of the Jacksons' marriage [ABC7]](http://vindicatemj.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/60th-anniversary.jpg?w=600)
Michael Jackson is reportedly striking up a deal with fashion designer Christian Audigier. MJ is working with the Ed Hardy designer on the very first stages of a clothing line. The two are hoping it gets really big, and Michael is dedicating a lot of his time to the design of the clothes.
ear Timm, I gather from your last email my contract is taking a little more time to get than usual…
![Michael Jackson: "Thank you to my mother. Thank you for giving me life. I really mean that. I love you" [1993]](http://vindicatemj.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/1993-naacp-award-thank-you-for-you-giving-me-life-i-really-love-you.jpg?w=314&h=246)
![LIE: "Kathy Jorrie checked Dr. Murray" [she googled him for 10 min on the Internet]](http://vindicatemj.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/putnam8.jpg?w=229&h=230)
![LIE: "June 19th was an anomaly" [TRUTH: the AEG own staff said they saw MJ deteriorating for 8 weeks]](http://vindicatemj.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/putnam5.jpg?w=265&h=225)
